Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Selena ¡VIVE!

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Editors are encouraged to make some improvements in the article and add any of the sources indicated in this discussion to the article to prevent renomination in the near future. (non-admin closure) ASTIG️🙃 _{(ICE-T • ICE CUBE)} 03:00, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Selena ¡VIVE![edit]

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I can find no reliable sources that discuss this event, the DVD or album. I was excited to find https://www.allmusic.com/album/selena-%C2%A1vive%21-dvd--mw0001015820 but it is only a track listing, not a review. Passing mention in https://books.google.ca/books?id=BBUEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=%22Selena+%C2%A1VIVE!%22+-wikipedia&source=bl&ots=fxxoH7VY-Q&sig=ACfU3U2yLt-jNxMWFud-ect0hmV4J39Frg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicot-9s5f2AhVhFzQIHUKNBcU4MhDoAXoECAMQAw#v=onepage&q=%22Selena%20%C2%A1VIVE!%22%20-wikipedia&f=false and apparently an ebook, but otherwise only sales sites. Fails WP:GNG. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:32, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:32, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete zero sources used, could be a section in the Selena article. Oaktree b (talk) 03:58, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh. I didn't even think that Selena could be a logical target for a this search term. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Albums and songs, Music, Television, and Events. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 04:37, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Found a source about the viewership...and there was also a source in the talk page that's been waiting to go on there for ten years. I would think a special which broke viewership records about a beloved singer would be easily sourced, and I'll do my best to find a few more, but I don't think deletion is a remedy here. Nate • (chatter) 10:14, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I listed the Billboard reference above. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:30, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep Besides the viewership record that the event achieved as noted by Nate, there's 377 unique mentions on the event on newspapers.com (membership required to access sourced materials) in English and Spanish newspapers. The only reason why the article is in a dire state is the lack of editing activity and the vast majority of sources for the event are housed behind paywalls. This doesn't warrant a deletion, let alone a merge to the singer's page as there seems to be more about this event than what a Wikipedia article on the subject currently has. – jona ✉ 20:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, just found the soundtrack to the event debuted on Billboard chart page 48, under Top Latin Albums of the week. – jona ✉ 20:13, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Entering the Latin Albums chart has not really garnered much more press for the work. It, may be notable, but clearly, with lack of other press, it is not. All of these details can be supplied in a two short sentences in the subject's article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:16, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets WP:GNG per above arguments. SBKSPP (talk) 01:41, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- That is the strangest argument I have seen. GNG is clear that a subject may be notable if "it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". There is not one piece of significant coverage anywhere to be seen. IF you want to argue it may be notable because it meets some other criteria, go ahead, but it in no possible way meets GNG. If you think it does, show the significant coverage. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:32, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep arguments not addressing policy. Please evidence the claims to meet GNG
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:43, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure why this was relisted. I already provided Walter with the "significant coverage" he is seeking. The sources, as I mentioned above, are housed behind paywalls which GNG states: Sources do not have to be available online or written in English. not sure why this rule seems to be dismissed when presented with the sources that clearly shows "significant coverage" in newspapers from that time. As someone aligned with the Latin Music Wikiproject, I already know firsthand that articles pertaining to Latin music are scarce, and the vast majority of them are behind paywalls. Not sure why he thought a subject, with primary interest from Spanish-speaking communities, from 2005 would be widely available throughout a simple google search in 2022. However, since my specialty pertains to Latin music, searching in google would be my last desperate option to locate any coverage for Latin music-related articles. Didn't know that 377 newspapers.com matches is unsatisfactory and fails GNG. – jona ✉ 18:15, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- First, because two editors have voiced concern about lack of coverage and, no you have not provided significant coverage. You have suggested that there may be significant coverage. It could be 337 passing mentions in a TV guide listing, or it could be an entirely different topic. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:43, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: have the sources been proven to actually exist? Paywalled is a red herring, they need to be proven to exist as indepth and independent.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:09, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment additional sources: Houston Chronicle, Hispanic Magazine/BanderasNews, El Universo, Elsalvador.com.-KH-1 (talk) 03:56, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Giving this discussion one more round to analyze the sources indicated above.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ASTIG️🙃 _{(ICE-T • ICE CUBE)} 03:00, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Here are some hits from the proquest database:
- "'Selena: Vive!' out on DVD this month: The sold-out Selena tribute concert that drew 50,000-plus fans to Houston last April will be released June 28 on DVD. John Powell Metz. Corpus Christi Caller - Times; Corpus Christi [Corpus Christi]. 01 Aug 2011.
- `SELENA: !VIVE!' CELEBRATES A MUSICAL LEGACY: [CONEXION Edition] Burr, Ramiro. Conexion; San Antonio, Tex. [San Antonio, Tex]. 14 Apr 2005: 26A.
- 'Selena-Vive!' honors star's life, music legacy Fans regret the absence of singer, who broke barriers: The brightest stars of the Latin music world will unite and pay tribute to the Queen of Tejano, Selena Quintanilla-Perez, during Univision's "Selena-Vive!" Tribute Concert on Thursday at Reliant Stadium in Houston. Hinojosa, Cassandra; Caller-Times. Corpus Christi Caller - Times; Corpus Christi [Corpus Christi]. 01 Aug 2011.
- SELENA TRIBUTE PERFORMERS: The performers for the "Selena Vive!" concert in Houston include: Thalia is burning up the charts in her native Mexico as well as the Billboard Top 10 Latin Charts. Cavazos, Mary Ann; Vasquez, Tina; Caller-Times. Corpus Christi Caller - Times; Corpus Christi [Corpus Christi]. 01 Aug 2011.

That's just the top hits - there are others, although so far I don't see any beyond Corpus Christi Caller, the San Antonio Connexion, and the Houston Chronicle. Most of the ones I've reviewed are announcements (ticket sales, headliners). I don't know if that is enough to make this notable. jona, if you could give more information on the articles you have found that would be more helpful than a simple number of hits. Lamona (talk) 03:51, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Lamona: Here is what I was able to find. The event was the most-watched Spanish-language program in American television history, highlighted by Houston Chronicle which makes the article pass WP:Notability. Neilsen ratings of the event said it was the most-watched television special by Latinos, more than that of the Super Bowl that took place that February. Early stages/plans of the concert on the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, according to the The Monitor, Houston mayor Bill White appeared in a news conference along with Edward James Olmos and Bobby Pulido. The newspaper goes into detail about the controversy of the lack of more Tejano/groupo acts in the program and the proceeds that will benefit the Selena Foundation. The Fresno Bee announcement of more performers. Music executive Jose Behar of Universal Music Group announces the CD of the event as part of a larger release, an "unprecedented" amount for the company during an interview with the Philadelphia Daily News. Emilio Estefan and Gloria Estefan's involvement of the event and interviewed on The Courier (Iowa), another interview of the Estefan's The Monitor. Music engineering and mixing for the event commences Sacramento Bee, ticket giveaways on radio stations and interviews with those who won on Corpus Christi Caller-Times, Spanish preview and commentary, a reporter believes "millions more will watch the show on TV" and name of the event's sponsor Austin-American Statesman, according to people "it's not only radio stations talking about it, it's everyone" Corpus Christi Caller-Times, the event marked the first time her band performed together since 1995 San Angelo Standard-Times, 20 performers were to take part before it was cut down Fort Worth Star-Telegram, a list of all performers and a review for each one of them Corpus Christi Caller-Times,

red Carpet of the event The Sacramento Bee, a review of the red carpet taping Associated Press, another review of the red carpet taping Austin American Statesman, a review of the show by Corpus Christi Caller-Times, a review of the show by San Angelo Standard-Times, two-page review of the show by Austin American Statesman, two-page review of the show by The Fresno Bee, the show was the fourth most-watched television show in Los Angeles, California it was watched by 664,000 people according to Neilsen ratings The Los Angeles Times, a review of the show by Tuscan Citizen, broke Neilsen ratings Corpus Christi Caller-Times, a review of the show by Fort Worth Star-Telegram, a review by Leila Cobo The Fresno Bee and Arizona Republic, the show broke Neilsen ratings records and another review by The Fresno Bee, a review of the show by Ventura County Star, a review of one of the performances Corpus Christi Caller-Times, a review of the show by The Times News (Idaho), a review of the album which debuted on Billboard Latin Albums chart by The Fresno Bee, the album peaked at number two on the Latin Pop Albums chart The Fresno Bee, announcement of a DVD release Fort Worth Star-Telegram. This is all from a search on newspapers.com only looking through January 1, 2005 through January 1, 2006. I did not want to exhaust my time searching, there are plenty more newspaper articles on the event. Elsewhere, I was able to find a reenactment of the show that took place in Mexico City by drag queens in August 2005, a review and interviews of that performance by Deborah Vargas spreads three pages in her 2012 book Dissonant Divas in Chicana Music. – jona ✉ 15:51, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The Houston Chronicle and El Universio sources are not paywalled and fully comply with GNG requirements. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:36, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.