Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 New York City Subway shooting

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to List of mass shootings in the United States in 2024. It was in the news, but that does not make it notable as required for such articles. However this is a viable AtD. Star Mississippi 03:15, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 New York City Subway shooting[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:TOOSOON. A fight that turned into an unfortunate shooting. Many of these happen across the good ol' US every month. Lettlre (talk) 17:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Events, United States of America, and New York. Lettlre (talk) 17:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. While tragic, this appears to be a run of the mill fight between two groups of teenagers. It is probably not notable as a standalone article per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NCRIME. The NYPD is currently operating under the assumption that this was not random. Numerous people are killed in the subway every year, some of whom have been shot, so this really does seem like a non-notable breaking news article at this time (i.e. I'm not seeing how this is different from other incidents where passengers were killed). – Epicgenius (talk) 18:24, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also have no issue with redirecting to List of mass shootings in the United States in 2024. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:03, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Numerous people are killed in the subway every year, some of whom have been shot, so this really does seem like a non-notable breaking news article at this time..."

I disagree. Reuters says that [s]hootings are especially uncommon: in 2022, when a man with a handgun injured 10 people on a train passing through Brooklyn, it was the first mass shooting attack on the subway system since 1984. It's only been the second one since 1984. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 04:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's only been the second one since 1984.
— User:Wikiexplorationandhelping 04:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
A minute of searching turned up this shooting from 2007 where four people were shot. In addition, I'm not sure you can disagree with the fact that numerous people are killed in the subway each year; there were 11 people killed in 2022 for example. If you're disagreeing with my comment that this doesn't seem notable, then that's fair, but I do think it falls under WP:NOTNEWS and that all coverage of the shooting thus far is breaking news coverage, which falls under WP:PRIMARYNEWS. – Epicgenius (talk) 16:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Wait. Per WP:Deadline, there is no need to immediately delete just yet. This article was just created. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 18:57, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In addition, plenty of sources exist from a Google News research. There is even coverage on Reuters, Associated Press, and Al Jazeera. So I would say this would pass GNG. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 19:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All of these are WP:PRIMARYNEWS sources (specifically, breaking news or eyewitness news sources describing the shootings); they are certainly reliable and independent, but secondary sources would also be needed to prove the lasting notability of an event. This is also an issue I brought up at the stabbing-spree AFD three weeks ago. So I'm going to repeat what I said there: WP:PERSISTENCE states that "a burst or spike of news reports does not automatically make an incident notable. Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article." None of these sources show any evidence of persistent coverage; they are all reporting on breaking news.
Since, as you point out, there is no deadline, it should not hurt to wait to create such articles until significant coverage, not just primary news sources, do exist. – Epicgenius (talk) 20:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Rather routine coverage of a subway shooting. The article now is barely half a paragraph long. At best, it could get a mention in an article about "New York in 2024" but nothing notable about this event needing an article. Oaktree b (talk) 19:11, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That has changed somewhat. I've made quite some improvements since. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 04:18, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete We've been here before with the exact same user creating the deleted article Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 New York City stabbing spree (and with the same exact reason to keep, that 'we need time before it gets deleted'). @Wikiexplorationandhelping:, please find another interest area to contribute to or learn how to build an article in draftspace, as this is tiring to argue; it's an average crime for the area and hardly anything that would get notice outside the first-day burst of coverage. Nate • (chatter) 19:23, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What makes this different is that somebody died, and the suspect(s) is(are) not in custody as of this comment. There's likely going to be some sustained coverage for a little while. If this article gets deleted, I'll try to go through AfC whenever I create a New York City event article. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 01:02, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. Whether someone died has nothing to do with a subject's notability.

2. It's not "sustained coverage" if we're getting updates on an ongoing situation. That's just regular coverage. Sustained coverage would be if years from now they write articles or books looking back on this.

3. We don't write articles based on what there's going to be, we write articles based on what there already is. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS, this subject lacks coverage from secondary sources as it stands and it is unclear if this event will have lasting notability. Let'srun (talk) 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of mass shootings in the United States in 2024. Agree with the WP:NOTNEWS concerns here but redirection is a good WP:ATD in case this ends up being notable (though that seems unlikely). Elli (talk | contribs) 04:36, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. One death, just another unremarkable shooting in NYC. WWGB (talk) 06:40, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment/Question What is in essence the difference with (non-fatal) 2022 New York City Subway attack? 64.141.44.242 (talk) 07:31, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The 2022 attack received a significant and lasting amount of media coverage outside of the New York area, this one hasn't. TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Happens everyday in the US.

Elizzaflanagan221 (talk) 11:18, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of mass shootings in the United States in 2024 per Elli. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:15, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There are still continuous updates on this event, as seen with US News, and ABC7. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 02:16, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both of these are still WP:PRIMARYNEWS sources. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:54, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect NOTNEWS applies, all of the sources are just news updates. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:52, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and insignificant coverage. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of such attacks on the New York City Subway. Even though they receive local coverage almost immediately, most of them do not end up as articles on Wikipedia. HarukaAmaranth ^春 _香 11:00, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - per sigcov. Clearly this has received plenty of media coverage. BabbaQ (talk) 15:02, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redir to list of US mass shootings in 2024 per Elli JoshuaAuble (talk) 00:36, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete could not find any sustained coverage of this shooting. Esolo5002 (talk) 23:21, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: WP:NOTNEWS. it would not really make sense, especially as this is relatively not rare. Password ^{(talk)(contribs)} 06:13, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.