User talk:GJR1995

I'm an administrator; it's my job to delete articles that don't meet our inclusion rules. Having a Wikipedia article about yourself is not an entitlement; we have rules here, and if the article doesn't meet them, it's not allowed to stay. Period. Bearcat (talk) 16:41, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

April 2011

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to User talk:Bearcat with this edit, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Reaper Eternal (talk) 16:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

If you want to post on his talk page, add your information at the bottom. Don't delete everything else. Reaper Eternal (talk) 16:50, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at User:Bearcat, you may be blocked from editing. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:37, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

To Reaper Eternal

The guy up there named Bearcat or whoever the guy is deleted an article I made. Why? and what do I have to do to make it where he will not do that again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GJR1995 (talk • contribs)

Let's see. You need to:

1. Make it free text and not text taken from another website that violates its copyrights
2. Make sure it asserts that he's a notable musician
3. Make sure to cite reliable sources. This is critical, since you have admitted to a conflict of interest with the subject.

You might want to take a look at the welcome page for some more information on Wikipedia in general, or at guidelines on creating your first article. —C.Fred (talk) 17:29, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Firstly, I need to ask you to review our conflict of interest policy; hiring somebody to write a Wikipedia article about you isn't really that much more popular around here than writing it yourself. Not that it's necessarily forbidden, but it's certainly discouraged because it raises a lot of risks that the article will fail to meet our core content policies around neutrality and verifiability.

Secondly, review some of the articles in Category:FA-Class biography (musicians) articles; that'll give you a better sense of the kind of writing style and tone and structure we're actually looking for. And look at the criteria spelled out at WP:MUSICIAN for some examples of the kind of notability claims that are useful and valid on Wikipedia. They're not necessarily difficult to meet — note that the very first one is simply "has garnered media coverage" — but you do need to be able to credibly claim at least one of them.

Thirdly, the overall tone has to be neutral and informational, rather than promotional, in nature — and as C. Fred points out below, articles posted here have to be licensed under a GFDL or Creative Commons license, which don't restrict their reuse in other contexts, so an article on here cannot have its own "copyright me" notice on it.

Finally, articles on here need to cite real reliable media sources — newspaper or magazine coverage, radio or TV interviews, etc. — for their content. Simple biographical information (birth date, etc.) can certainly be sourced directly to an artist's own press kit, but the media sources still need to be there to prove basic notability and to verify anything but the basics. What I ask you to understand is that people have actually asserted outright lies ("had a #1 hit on Billboard for 47 weeks" with a song nobody has ever heard of, "was the secret uncredited co-writer of the entire Beatles song catalog", "invented a new genre of music" that nobody has ever actually heard of, etc.) to support their inclusion — so what we need is sources which actually demonstrate that the claim is true.

Ultimately, you need to understand that having a Wikipedia article is not an entitlement. If an article does not meet our rules and standards, then it can be deleted whether you like that or not; we don't owe you the privilege of having it kept permanently. Hope that helps a bit. Bearcat (talk) 17:29, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

ok

So I understand that it is not an entitlement. I am Mr. Grant Reynolds' manager. The songs have not been released yet. The album comes out summer of 2011. Should we just wait until then to make the page so its more credible? I also own the company The Dove and The Crow. Which does interviews, reviews, etc. So I do not see a problem there. I feel like you are making this very difficult to just create this page for my client.

About Grant Reynolds (Musician)

I see you've created an article titled Grant Reynolds (Musician). There are a number of issues that need to be dealt with in the article.

The most grave is this text at the bottom of the article. "All materials are © Copyright under federal law. All rights reserved. Unauthorized reproduction is a violation of federal law." What's the source of the text in the article? If you've taken it from another website, then the Wikipedia article must be deleted immediately to respect that site's copyrights. On the other hand, if the text is original material that you wrote yourself, then the copyright notice can be safely removed—by contributing the material to Wikipedia, you released it under the Creative Commons and GFDL license, effectively all reproduction with attribution is permissible under federal law, and the notice is redundant.

Please advise on the origins of the text. I'll be Googling to see what I find regarding it. —C.Fred (talk) 17:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

OK

I also run The Dove and the Crow. So there is no problem there. The interview was done in person and not written. I will try to find the recorded interview. Anything else?

So just to clarify the situation here:

1. The subject has not been covered in any independent reliable sources.
2. The article does not assert that the subject is a notable musician.

Please explain why the article should not be deleted, since this appears to clearly fall within criterion A7 for speedy deletion: an article about a musician with no assertion of significance or importance.

As Bearcat mentioned, having a Wikipedia article is not an entitlement. There are probably hundreds of articles created every day by unsigned musicians who are looking for a record deal or just to get attention. That's why the notability and verifiability rules are interpreted so strictly with articles about people and especially musicians. I wish nothing but the best for Reynolds in his musical career; however, until that career advances to the point where he has a chart hit, multiple albums on notable labels, or otherwise meets the notability criteria, he should not have a Wikipedia article. —C.Fred (talk) 17:38, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

understandable

That is very understandable. I do believe that rules need to be kept in order, though I do think we are taking this out of hand. Mr. Reynolds needs and article to show who he is and where he is going. The album The Wishing, which is being recorded by SlaughterMusic, is scheduled to release summer of 2011. Would it be better to wait until then to create a page and then ask for protection? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GJR1995 (talk • contribs)

Showing "where he is going" is not the reason to have an article. Showing who he is reveals that he's a non-notable musician and should not have an article!

After the album is created, we can re-assess whether Reynolds is notable and should have an article. If he's lucky, the album or a single will chart, and he'll be notable. However, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and we do not create articles on the presumption that somebody will become notable in the future.

Regarding page protection, that would only be granted if there were vandalism to the article. Frankly, if a request were made today, it would be to prevent creation of an article about Reynolds—and that would just be an extra hurdle down the road if he becomes notable. —C.Fred (talk) 17:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

ok

so what should I do to move forward? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GJR1995 (talk • contribs)

I'd suggest waiting until Reynolds becomes notable and has been written about in reliable sources (newspapers, magazines, etc.).

I'd also suggest copying the text into a text file so you have it on your computer. Then, if he becomes notable in the future, you have it as a starting point for a new article. I'd recommend that, after you copy the text, you add the template {{db-author}} to the top of the article. That will be taken as a sign that you understand that he's not yet notable and that you're willing to wait to start an article until he becomes notable at some point in the future. —C.Fred (talk) 18:00, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

alrighty

sounds good and thank you for your help.