Case Opened on 22:22, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Case Closed on 02:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Please do not edit this page directly unless you wish to become a participant in this request. (All participants are subject to Arbitration Committee decisions, and the ArbCom will consider each participant's role in the dispute.) Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.

Arbitrators will be working on evidence and suggesting proposed decisions at /Workshop and voting on proposed decisions at /Proposed decision.

Involved parties[edit]

Plaintiffs[edit]

Susvolans (talk · contribs)
TenOfAllTrades (talk · contribs)

Defendant[edit]

12.144.5.2 (talk · contribs)

Statement by Susvolans[edit]

Louis Epstein has been editing since August 2003[1], and has accumulated more than 3000 edits. He has never created an account, but consistently uses the fixed IP address 12.144.5.2. As early as September 2003[2], he was asked to put spaces after punctuation, as is normal. His response was By now you should realize that NOT typing spaces after punctuation marks is a habit I have had for decades,and stick to fiercely. He has stuck to this. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:12.144.5.2&diff=22588969&oldid=22588280 ] More recently, he got into repeated reversion wars over Supercentenarian and National longevity recordholders, where his response to any complaint he might want to make was always to revert to his preferred version. He also systematically and unapologetically replaces dashes with hyphens in articles he edits, landing himself with an RFC. His recent edits and comments have shown no signs of contrition over formatting issues. Susvolans ⇔ 17:24, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Louis is still revert warring despite pleas on his talk page.[3] Susvolans ⇔ 17:00, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 12.144.5.2[edit]

Since the arbitrators appear willing to accept this despite the apparent skipping of the "mediation" stage,I suppose I had better write in here.

The punctuation issue is trivial;anyone who differs with my style can alter it without prompting reverts from me,and I think Oleg's "Mathbot" even is designed to do just that.The conceit of using HTML commands instead of hyphens is in my estimation silly,though Susvolans seems to regard it as a righteous cause to use seven characters to do the work of one or two.Given that the expressed programmer intent is to make the keyboard commands be parsed as the HTML commands he seems to be wasting both bytes and time.

The two articles that I originated from nothing on subjects which I have studied for years and have been invited to multiple international conferences concerning are of considerable importance to me.Where I have made (and explained ad nauseam on talk pages!) reasoned decisions on what should be included and what should not be,in terms of both content and presentation,and no counterarguments made have made sense to me,I am not inclined to yield to the lowest common denominator.(I note that Fred Bauder formed his own fork of Wikipedia,and I have considered doing the same,just to get away from an environment where bloating articles with irrelevances is considered a virtue). As I see it a lot of the opposition to my maintaining my preferred format is based on primitive herd instinct:apostles of Wikicommunity react negatively to the very idea of someone not surrendering when outnumbered,even when those who created alternatives to my version have essentially nothing invested in them and have moved on elsewhere,while I wish to continue actively updating and correcting just so long as my preferences are respected.No attention is paid to just how much the matter means to someone or how qualified the person is in the field.

I am willing to listen to proposals for compromise but have no interest in unconditional surrender,which is what was laughably proposed on my talk page as an alternative to seeking a potentially better resolution.--Louis Epstein/le@put.com/12.144.5.2 18:04, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Preliminary decisions[edit]

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (4/0/0/0)[edit]

Accept, see User_talk:12.144.5.2 Fred Bauder 14:38, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
Accept, thank you Fred. James F. (talk) 15:24, 7 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Accept ➥the Epopt 03:28, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Accept. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:12, 15 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Temporary injunction (none)[edit]

Final decision[edit]

Principles[edit]

Rules of punctuation[edit]

1) Users are expected to follow the usual rules of English punctuation, Wikipedia:Manual_of_style#Punctuation

Passed 7-0

Reversion[edit]

2) While Wikipedia policy anticipates that disputes may arise regarding the wording and content of Wikipedia articles, should disputes arise editors are expected to make reasonable compromises regarding the wording and content of Wikipedia articles. Persistent reversion remains strongly discouraged and is unlikely to constitute working properly with others.

Passed 5-0

Findings of fact[edit]

Unconventional punctuation[edit]

1) Louis Epstein is an otherwise productive Wikipedia editor who has adapted spacing and formatting practices which are at variance with usual Wikipedia practice, his attitude is that "Putting waste space after punctuations marks is vandalism!" [4]

Passed 7-0

Requests by community[edit]

2) Numerous editors have requested Louis Epstein follow conventional punctuation practices, see User_talk:12.144.5.2#Spaces_after_periods_and_commas

Passed 7-0

Persistent eccentricity[edit]

3) Unrepentant, despite numerous pleas to adopt conventional punctuation practices, he persists [5]

Passed 7-0

Persistent reversion[edit]

4) Louis Epstein has repeatedly reverted to versions of the articles Supercentenarian ([6], [7]) and National longevity recordholders ([8], [9], [10]) which do not reflect the version preferred by other editors working on the article in layout and/or content.

Passed 6-0

Remedies[edit]

Conventional punctuation required[edit]

1) Louis Epstein, editing under any user name, as 12.144.5.2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) or any other anonymous IP, may be briefly blocked if he neglects use of conventional punctuation. During 2005 no block shall exceed one day. During 2006 no block shall exceed one week. During 2007 no block shall exceed one month. Thereafter no block shall exceed one year.

Passed 6-0-1

Enforcement[edit]

Stayed enforcement[edit]

2) The remedies of this decision are not to be enforced so long as Babajobu is fixing Louis Epstein's punctuation habits as per his voluntary offer [11]. If the Arbitration Committee later, through a request for clarification, decides that this is no longer being done, the remedies in this decision will come into full effect, unless an approved arrangement has been made for another user to clean up after Louis Epstein. Babajobu is under no obligation to continue doing this and may walk away at any time, although if he does choose to quit he is requested to notify the Arbitration Committee that he has done so.

Passed 7-0