Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xavi Simons (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is GNG is met Fenix down (talk) 10:21, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Xavi Simons[edit]

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still fails WP:NFOOTY, the only "coverage" is WP:BLP1E about how many followers he has, which is unimpressive and lacking in depth, it's the equivalent of gossip. Praxidicae (talk) 12:14, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I would argue, following Simons' move to Paris Saint Germain, his media coverage expanded, similar to that of Luqman Hakim Shamsudin, who was also subject to an AfD, of which the result was keep. There have been numerous articles written about the player, and he is frequently mentioned in articles about the top prospects in European football (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7). I am aware that this alone may not be enough to meet WP:GNG, but I believe the sources I have provided, as well as the fact that there are 17 pages of results on Google news about Simons, is enough to meet WP:GNG.

Another player with stark similarities to Simons is Kays Ruiz-Atil, whose page is yet to be disputed. Also, players such as Sonny Pike and Youssoufa Moukoko, who are notable mostly for being a highly rated youth prospects at Ajax and Borussia Dortmund respectively, have not had their pages disputed. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 12:41, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kays Ruiz-Atil is not disputed because of several controversies and transfers: The transfers to Barca and PSG are notable enough for Kays Ruiz-Atil, as are the controversies with Football Leaks. So far there is neither enough football or enough drama to make Simons notable. Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 02:00, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 13:47, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 13:47, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 13:47, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Netherlands-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 14:12, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Subject seems to meet WP:GNG at this point, even though he's young the coverage is beyond that of a normal youth athlete and I'm seeing sigcov in multiple different langauges. If he fails to make the grade we can revisit which is the only reason why I'm a weak keep but I don't think it's WP:TOOSOON and it's likely he'll be remembered as a bust based on the level of coverage if he fails to make the grade. SportingFlyer T·C 14:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. S.A. Julio (talk) 14:26, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Big clubs sign hot prospects all the time, many of whom never amount to anything. This is likely going to be another case of that - if he ends up going professional and makes a first-team appearance, then he will he notable enough for an article. Right now, he’s just another nothing kid. – Pee Jay 14:32, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm mostly persuaded by the fact he's already being paid over €500,000 by PSG. This is an abnormal level of coverage for a nothing kid. [1] [2] [3] [4] SportingFlyer T·C 14:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Could be another John Bostock! Govvy (talk) 14:41, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - yet another (currently) highly tipped youth prospect who has received some media attention because of a big money transfer. Happens all the time and does not confer notability. Giant Snowman 15:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman: Very confused as to how you've come to this conclusion, having stood by the decision to keep Luqman Hakim Shamsudin up, justifying it by citing the case of Sonny Pike. I also don't see a difference between this and the page creations for Karamoko Dembele (page was created before his Celtic debut) and Youssoufa Moukoko, two players who were only notable at the time of their page creation for the fact that they are highly rated youth prospects. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 15:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the significant coverage about this player? And by that I mean more than "look at this prospect who has just signed for a big club, here's 10 facts about him". Giant Snowman 15:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the significant coverage for Pike? It can't be one rule for some, another rule for others. Even if Simons fails to make his professional debut, he'll fall under the same category as Pike of being a highly touted youth prospect who never made it at pro level. And that's besides the point, Simons already meets WP:GNG from the amount of news hits, surely. Not to mention I have only included English sources, and not French, Dutch or Spanish ones. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 15:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yet another good example is Louie Barry, who is only notable for a “big money move” to Aston Villa. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 15:43, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you think Sonny Pike is non-notable then it shows just how little you know about football. Also please read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Giant Snowman 16:44, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to draftify Shamsudin back in September and considering it doesn't look like he's training in Europe anymore may have been correct in that assessment. The level of coverage for Simons is currently far beyond Shamsudin, and the coverage is beyond mere transfer coverage. Yes yes OSE but it's not a bad point of comparison. Two sigcov articles not contemporaneous with the transfer: [5] [6] SportingFlyer T·C 16:52, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I apologise for my lack of knowledge on a player who was reaching his prime as I was born, and went on to play for the great sides of Waltham Forest and Dryburgh Saints. Truly lived up to his comparisons to Maradona and Best. Now if you want to stop resorting to insulting my football knowledge, we can discuss the article at hand. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per CNN article posted above, enough to push him over the GNG line. Giant Snowman 11:28, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft, agree with nom with WP:NFOOTY, and the references seem all pretty new, probably WP:TOOSOON, so I lean towards delete and if needed the text can stay in draft until the subject meets notability test. xinbenlv ^{Talk, Remember to "ping" me} 03:37, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NFOOTY and WP:TOOSOON. I'd also vote to delete on Louie Barry, Luqman Hakim Shamsudin, Ilaix Moriba, Kays Ruiz-Atil, and maybe even Youssoufa Moukoko for having pages before their pro debuts.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:21, 8 May 2020 (UTC) Changing my mind, to Keep in light of other AfDs for players in similar situations.--Ortizesp (talk) 21:56, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Easily passes WP:GNG based on a simple Google search even though it doesn't pass WP:NFOOTY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KingSkyLord (talk • contribs) 18:54, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You wanna provide those sources? Praxidicae (talk) 18:59, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are already 13 sources in this AfD alone with significant coverage, from multiple points in time, in different languages. That would be a good place to start. SportingFlyer T·C 22:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Very clearly passes GNG, with all the sources quoted above, plus relevant sources about the player are really not hard to find. I don't think it's our role here in the encyclopedia to judge the content of the sources: if they are quality reliable sources as described in WP:GNG, revolving around the subject of the article, then the article must not be deleted. --Coco (talk) 23:31, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom and GS. --BlameRuiner (talk) 22:30, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:56, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NFOOTY pretty badly. Yes, Simons is getting 1 million euros, but the sources are largely centered around the transfer and mere speculation. Having 2.4 million followers in IG hardly confers notability. His development at a young age hardly means anything. Big clubs have signed many prospects from a young age, many of which gradually get forgotten. Give it a year and he should have an article; for now, it's still WP:TOOSOON. Also compare WP:BLP1E, hardly any coverage of real football plays. Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 11:16, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to Keep -- see below. Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 08:27, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep I'm sorry but anyone that follows football even as a casual fan, knows who Xavi Simons is. The questioning of his legitimacy and then several commenters here saying lets see how he does before we keep this page as he is probably just "hype" is incredibly disrespectful. Imagine playing for FC Barcelona and Paris St. Germain and having some armchair analysts question your level of football skill... This question of deletion seems more personal based then on actual facts. There is more than enough media coverage on Xavi Simons around the world to keep him on wiki. To not have Xavi on wiki but keep other players barely heard of like Luqman Hakim Shamsudin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luqman_Hakim_Shamsudin - is craziness. Futbol10p (talk) 8:47, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Xavi Simons is not even playing in the reserves team of PSG (PSG II): he is just playing in the u19 academies, which is different from PSG II. PSG II is on the league system of France, while PSG U19 is in a totally different system (youth league). Luqman Hakim Shamsudin is considered notable because he is playing at Selangor FA II, which is at least in the 2nd tier of Malaysian football. Xavi Simons haven't even debuted for PSG II. See WP:WAX. At this point, coverage is centered on the transfer incident, and records of his actual footballing ability out of the youth team level are few and far between. Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 01:51, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He's not notable because of where he plays, he's notable because of the tremendous (compared to other prospects) amount of multilingual coverage that's been dedicated to him outside of mere transfers. SportingFlyer T·C 03:34, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Eumat114: Actually, there is no concrete evidence that Shamsudin has signed officially for Selangor. He could just be training with them, and he certainly hasn’t played any games for Selangor II. Even if he was playing for Selangor II, the Malay Premier League is not professional and he still fails WP:NFOOTY. Simons also fails, but he meets WP:GNG. The coverage for Shamsudin consists of his performances for the youth teams of Malaysia and for his (collapsed) transfer to Kortijk. Please explain how he is more notable than Simons. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 07:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Davidlofgren1996, as the top scorer of a competition Hakim (not Shamsudim, see that article) naturally received a bit more coverage, even if the competition was youth-level; the top scorer is an award that should demonstrate notability. Have Xavi Simons won any individual awards? If yes, I'm happy to keep. Right now, it's close, but just a bit off. In fact, draftify might be a better option as he should be notable in 6 months. Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 07:53, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Four youth Ballon d’Or awards probably trump an under-16 Asian youth tournament joint top scorer award. Source Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 08:01, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Davidlofgren1996, Okay thanks. Here's a trout: {{trout}} It should have been brought out 5 days ago (or I must have missed something) -- Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 08:27, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Meets GNG, the CNN profile is significant independent coverage. P-K3 (talk) 01:47, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.