Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Silicon Slopes
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. Nominator has withdrawn their nomination and voted to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 04:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Silicon Slopes[edit]
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- Silicon Slopes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Article is well sourced and well written, however, it does not refer to a municipality, but an ill-defined geographic area. Silicon Slopes is essentially a commercial high tech real estate project that over time grew out of Thanksgiving Point with a large amount (over 40%) of vacant real estate and this article is the ad for that . Article makes more sense merged into Utah Valley since having a standalone article is nothing more than advertising for commercial real estate in Lehi, Utah. Recommend delete or merge into the previously mentioned articles. KindHorta (talk) 05:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- I change my vote to keep and request this Afd be closed. Whether the content should be merged into Utah Valley is another discussion for another day. The article has been improved to the point it's no longer a blatant advertisement. KindHorta (talk) 21:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and refine. As this well-sourced article notes, the concept is distinct and well-established, but there's no evidence to say Silicon Slopes is centered on Lehi versus the broader Wasatch Front region. Compare the lede for Silicon Valley: "Silicon Valley is a region in Northern California that is a global center for high technology and innovation. Located in the southern part of the San Francisco Bay Area, it corresponds roughly to the geographical area of the Santa Clara Valley." Likewise, for this, I'd suggest that framing Silicon Slopes like this: "Silicon Slopes is a term that defines the part of Utah that is a major economic center for technology and innovation businesses. Centered on the cities of Salt Lake City and Provo and their surrounding suburbs, it corresponds roughly to the geographical area of the Wasatch Front." In fact, I'm going to make that change right now. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not for advertising and honestly, that's all this article is about. Your corrections help a little but seriously, this article is an advertisement. I am not certain that claiming the entire Wasatch Front, which is hundreds of miles long, encompasses Silicon Slopes just because the article says so. Silicon Slopes is centered at point of the mountain north of Lehi, and that's where it started from the Thanksgiving Point commercial real estate complex which expanded over time. This article is a blatant advertisement and is written as such. KindHorta (talk) 02:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- If the article's too promotional, then WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM. Deletion is for articles that don't belong on Wikipedia at all, usually for notability reasons. There's plenty of WP:SIRS sourcing for "Silicon Slopes" as a concept (and it's sourced as well as or better than most of the other "Silicon ___" appellations with articles on Wikipedia). This debate isn't about whether the article is promotional; it's about whether the topic is notable. Do you disagree? Dclemens1971 (talk) 04:02, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- From Lehi, Utah - Ancestry.com moved its headquarters from Provo to Lehi in May 2016. The headquarters building is located in The Corporate Center at Traverse Mountain. Microsoft has an engineering department specializing in the next version of its MDOP (Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack), code-named "Park City."[19] Initially employing 100, Microsoft has built a second building to house its staff.[20] Microsoft Southwest District is located at 3400 N. Ashton Blvd., Suite 300 Lehi, Utah 84043.[21] Other Thanksgiving Park tenants are Oracle Corporation, Infusionsoft, Workfront, Vivint Solar, Agel Enterprises, DigiCert, Jolt and ProPay Inc.[22]. Article should be deleted are merged, preferably merged into Utah Valley which is where is belongs. KindHorta (talk) 05:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Reliable sources make clear that "Silicon Slopes" refers to a wider area beyond Lehi: Draper (Deseret News, SL Tribune), Midvale (KSL News Radio), Ogden (Utah Business, TechCrunch, Axios), South Jordan Utah Business), American Fork (Utah Business), and Provo KUER). Dclemens1971 (talk) 11:39, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- I agree there are a lot of promotional articles claimed to be sources, and I also agree the topic is notable. What I am debating is where it should be mentioned. There are a lot of articles on Wikipedia that are well sourced but turn out to be advertisements and get deleted or merged. "Silicon Slopes" is now a marketing term for any high tech company in Utah. I lived in Utah for 30 years and was living there when Silicon Slopes was being built and I can tell you with certainty it only referred to the area north of Lehi, and it did not embrace the 200 or so miles along the entire Wasatch front, which is what you are claiming. You are just flat wrong and the sources you quote are all promotional nonsense advertising high tech real estate in Lehi, Utah. KindHorta (talk) 20:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Reliable sources make clear that "Silicon Slopes" refers to a wider area beyond Lehi: Draper (Deseret News, SL Tribune), Midvale (KSL News Radio), Ogden (Utah Business, TechCrunch, Axios), South Jordan Utah Business), American Fork (Utah Business), and Provo KUER). Dclemens1971 (talk) 11:39, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- From Lehi, Utah - Ancestry.com moved its headquarters from Provo to Lehi in May 2016. The headquarters building is located in The Corporate Center at Traverse Mountain. Microsoft has an engineering department specializing in the next version of its MDOP (Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack), code-named "Park City."[19] Initially employing 100, Microsoft has built a second building to house its staff.[20] Microsoft Southwest District is located at 3400 N. Ashton Blvd., Suite 300 Lehi, Utah 84043.[21] Other Thanksgiving Park tenants are Oracle Corporation, Infusionsoft, Workfront, Vivint Solar, Agel Enterprises, DigiCert, Jolt and ProPay Inc.[22]. Article should be deleted are merged, preferably merged into Utah Valley which is where is belongs. KindHorta (talk) 05:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- If the article's too promotional, then WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM. Deletion is for articles that don't belong on Wikipedia at all, usually for notability reasons. There's plenty of WP:SIRS sourcing for "Silicon Slopes" as a concept (and it's sourced as well as or better than most of the other "Silicon ___" appellations with articles on Wikipedia). This debate isn't about whether the article is promotional; it's about whether the topic is notable. Do you disagree? Dclemens1971 (talk) 04:02, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not for advertising and honestly, that's all this article is about. Your corrections help a little but seriously, this article is an advertisement. I am not certain that claiming the entire Wasatch Front, which is hundreds of miles long, encompasses Silicon Slopes just because the article says so. Silicon Slopes is centered at point of the mountain north of Lehi, and that's where it started from the Thanksgiving Point commercial real estate complex which expanded over time. This article is a blatant advertisement and is written as such. KindHorta (talk) 02:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Please note this is the second AfD for this article. The first was improperly overwritten by the nominator here. Owen× ☎ 06:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Part of the problem here is that the nominator is removing numerous WP:SIRS from the article (under the guise of removing "advertising") that support the idea of "Silicon Slopes" as a collective name for the regional tech economy and collapsing the concept to a single nonprofit with the same name, which is a form of WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH. I have no dog in this fight other than that I have heard numerous people referring to the greater Salt Lake region this way, and reliable sources (such as the ones I've cited upthread) confirm this usage. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- As I have repeatedly said, "Silicon Slopes" is a marketing platform to advertise Utah Valley, real estate and workforce as the next "Silicon Valley". All of my content is backed up with concrete secondary sources. All of these sources you keep quoting have their origins from siliconslopes.com, a "mormons only" club trying to convince large high tech companies to settle in Utah and employ mormons. If you are a non-mormon, LGBT, or a woman you won't get a job there or equal pay comparable to the diversity in the real Silicon Valley, and you will face discrimination in housing and other areas of life if you move there. Please stop drinking the Silicon Slopes Koolaide and actually go and read and research these sources. What's original research is claiming that "Silicon Slopes" is a regional area of Utah when in fact the sources point to it as a crowd-marketing scam to lure people into Utah that is run by mormon interests. There is no map or regional area, municipality, or city with the name "Silicon Slopes". It's original research to claim Silicon Slopes is the same as "Wasatch Front". KindHorta (talk) 20:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't say it's the same as the Wasatch Front. I said it encompasses a tech economy throughout the Wasatch Front area. I have no idea who you are but you seem to have a major axe to grind here. This language you've added in the article ("Although often compared to Silicon Valley, Silicon Slopes lacks the workforce diversity and climate of equality and inclusiveness which exists in Silicon Valley. Due to the strong influence of the Mormon Church in the area, women, LGBT, and minorities face significant challenges in the workplace in Utah and discrimination in pay and other benefits. Salt Lake City is somewhat more inclusive than Utah Valley where Silicon Slopes is based, which is over 90% Latter Day Saint in terms of population. Incidents of antisemitism and discrimination of LGBT and women have been reported in the Silicon Slopes workplace. The Silicon Slopes job market is also reported to be over-hyped in comparison to Silicon Valley.") is not NPOV, and you appear to be a WP:SPA since your edits are only on this article and this AfD. Ironically, considering you started this AfD by complaining about promotional content, what you are doing appears to be WP:PROMOTION of a particular point of view. As you point out above, you believe this is a "crowd marketing scam" run by shadowy "mormon interests." I have been assuming good faith until now but seeing these kind of comments, there is no way you are in a position to edit this article fairly and I think you should step back from the article and let this AfD run its course. P.S. I'm not Mormon, I don't live in Utah, I don't work in tech, I have no affiliation with anything to do with this subject matter, but I can read the sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:09, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- All of that content you object to is backed up with credible reliable secondary sources. I usually just edit with my IP, but you need an account to Afd and I have been forthright about that and disclosed it as required by WP policy. I have no axe to grind here other than improving the quality of WP. I also know a lot about this topic and I came across this article and saw it flagged as advertising and it in fact is advertising, so I reviewed it and tried to improve it. I have to wonder if you have a WP:COI. Can you please disclose your relationship to this topic. KindHorta (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- I just told you above I don't have one. Look at my contribution history -- I'm a new page reviewer working this month to clear the new page review backlog, so I engage in tons of discussions here on many different topics. I'm able to review the sources and I know the framework for how they validate notability or not. I had heard casual mention of this topic a couple times before but didn't dig in until I reviewed your AfD. Meanwhile, you have used biased and POV language and disclosed that you lived close to the original development, so obviously you have a specific take on it. And like I said, perhaps you should step back and let this this AfD take its course. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Now that the advertising has been removed for the most part and silicon slopes has been "unmasked" in the article, I hope the article get's kept or merged. I have consistently said I think the topic is notable and belongs on WP, but cleaned up and properly scaled. I think this article goes well with Utah Valley and belongs there but that's up to the consensus of other editors. I want you and others to understand how Silicon Slopes came to be and what it is apart of the marketing and hype. As of today, it's a lot of vacant real estate looking for tenants. KindHorta (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Deletion is not cleanup, so if you think the article is sufficiently improved, you should !vote to withdraw your nomination so this debate can be closed. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Now that the advertising has been removed for the most part and silicon slopes has been "unmasked" in the article, I hope the article get's kept or merged. I have consistently said I think the topic is notable and belongs on WP, but cleaned up and properly scaled. I think this article goes well with Utah Valley and belongs there but that's up to the consensus of other editors. I want you and others to understand how Silicon Slopes came to be and what it is apart of the marketing and hype. As of today, it's a lot of vacant real estate looking for tenants. KindHorta (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- I just told you above I don't have one. Look at my contribution history -- I'm a new page reviewer working this month to clear the new page review backlog, so I engage in tons of discussions here on many different topics. I'm able to review the sources and I know the framework for how they validate notability or not. I had heard casual mention of this topic a couple times before but didn't dig in until I reviewed your AfD. Meanwhile, you have used biased and POV language and disclosed that you lived close to the original development, so obviously you have a specific take on it. And like I said, perhaps you should step back and let this this AfD take its course. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- All of that content you object to is backed up with credible reliable secondary sources. I usually just edit with my IP, but you need an account to Afd and I have been forthright about that and disclosed it as required by WP policy. I have no axe to grind here other than improving the quality of WP. I also know a lot about this topic and I came across this article and saw it flagged as advertising and it in fact is advertising, so I reviewed it and tried to improve it. I have to wonder if you have a WP:COI. Can you please disclose your relationship to this topic. KindHorta (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't say it's the same as the Wasatch Front. I said it encompasses a tech economy throughout the Wasatch Front area. I have no idea who you are but you seem to have a major axe to grind here. This language you've added in the article ("Although often compared to Silicon Valley, Silicon Slopes lacks the workforce diversity and climate of equality and inclusiveness which exists in Silicon Valley. Due to the strong influence of the Mormon Church in the area, women, LGBT, and minorities face significant challenges in the workplace in Utah and discrimination in pay and other benefits. Salt Lake City is somewhat more inclusive than Utah Valley where Silicon Slopes is based, which is over 90% Latter Day Saint in terms of population. Incidents of antisemitism and discrimination of LGBT and women have been reported in the Silicon Slopes workplace. The Silicon Slopes job market is also reported to be over-hyped in comparison to Silicon Valley.") is not NPOV, and you appear to be a WP:SPA since your edits are only on this article and this AfD. Ironically, considering you started this AfD by complaining about promotional content, what you are doing appears to be WP:PROMOTION of a particular point of view. As you point out above, you believe this is a "crowd marketing scam" run by shadowy "mormon interests." I have been assuming good faith until now but seeing these kind of comments, there is no way you are in a position to edit this article fairly and I think you should step back from the article and let this AfD run its course. P.S. I'm not Mormon, I don't live in Utah, I don't work in tech, I have no affiliation with anything to do with this subject matter, but I can read the sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:09, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- As I have repeatedly said, "Silicon Slopes" is a marketing platform to advertise Utah Valley, real estate and workforce as the next "Silicon Valley". All of my content is backed up with concrete secondary sources. All of these sources you keep quoting have their origins from siliconslopes.com, a "mormons only" club trying to convince large high tech companies to settle in Utah and employ mormons. If you are a non-mormon, LGBT, or a woman you won't get a job there or equal pay comparable to the diversity in the real Silicon Valley, and you will face discrimination in housing and other areas of life if you move there. Please stop drinking the Silicon Slopes Koolaide and actually go and read and research these sources. What's original research is claiming that "Silicon Slopes" is a regional area of Utah when in fact the sources point to it as a crowd-marketing scam to lure people into Utah that is run by mormon interests. There is no map or regional area, municipality, or city with the name "Silicon Slopes". It's original research to claim Silicon Slopes is the same as "Wasatch Front". KindHorta (talk) 20:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.