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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No Consensus I don't believe that wikiproject guidelines should trump the general notability guide and there are plenty of sources that make this individual independantly notable. Secondly, I don't see the point of deleting this just to undelete or recreate it later just to satisfy a process. Spartaz Humbug! 23:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Ahrens[edit]

Kevin Ahrens (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Non-notable baseball player. Was just drafted in the first round of the Major League Baseball draft, but was drafted straight out of high school, and hasn't signed a contract. He might not choose to go pro, and even if he does, he's got a long way to go to meet WP:BIO. --fuzzy510 20:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC) fuzzy510 20:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep There are sources for this person and he was drafted into Major League Baseball.++aviper2k7++ 20:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: per the (albeit, unofficial) standard set forth by WP:Baseball, minor leaguers are not inherently notable. This kid is not just a minor-leaguer, but he hasn't even played a game yet. --fuzzy510 20:29, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • That doesn't matter if there's sources for him.++aviper2k7++ 20:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Drafted by a Major League team, you can't use speculation, "[h]e might not choose to go pro," as rationale for deleting an article. Just because you speculate something doesn't mean that's what's gonna happen. There's a rule against speculating in an article, and that same standard goes for deleting an article. You can't delete an article (or nominate it for deletion) because he "might not" be notable. Being drafted by a Major League team makes him notable because, on the contrary, he "might" play for that team. It works both ways. Just like in Football, when you have a penalty on each team, they offset. --Ksy92003(talk) 21:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete Players who are drafted are not notable enough for inclusion here. The athlete must have something notable about them besides being drafted as drafted does not guarantee much of anything. If they are a first overall draft pick or perhaps USA Today Player of the Year, then they are notable. I don't think it would benefit wikipedia to have articles on ever person ever to be paid to play baseball. //Tecmobowl 21:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • WEak Delete Wait until he play in the majors.--JForget 23:21, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Hasn't played pro baseball yet, so clearly fails WP:BIO. If he got a contract and played in the minor league, that would technically satisfy the "played professionally" provision of WP:BIO but per recent AFD comments, some feel that the minors don't count, or certain levels of minor league don't count. If so those editors should edit WP:BIO to say so. I think we would then need to equate what it means in salary and notability to play various pro sports in various countries. Edison 02:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 05:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 05:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • STRONG KEEP, I don't like Baseball, but I looked in google and he has many listing in it. He is notable.. Article needs to be expanded and more sources placed. Callelinea 15:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • He was referring to the amount of sources available in a quick Google search.++aviper2k7++ 16:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Many listing[s] in it" doesn't tell me that, it just tells me there's a big number of hits. Morgan Wick 19:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Keep' Comment: as a first-round MLB draft pick. That's a precedent used in NHL, see: 2007 NHL Entry Draft#Round 1 and Category:National Hockey League first round draft picks. Canuckle 16:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - and the same precedent for MLB first-round picks has been to not keep them. It's really only fair to compare apples and apple here. --fuzzy510 18:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • And where do they keep that precedent? Is it worth an edit to WP:BIO? Then nominators could cite it and everyone would be on the same page from the beginning of the AfD. I get the point that baseball drafts may be unlike other sports, as per MLB: "The Major League Baseball Draft is among the least followed of the professional sports drafts in the United States, possibly because other professional sports drafts feature players who will immediately start to play for the team they are drafted by that next year, whereas the MLB has an extensive minor league system to help players mature and hone their skills to be able to compete with those in the major leagues." However, this draft was the first to be televised live. We may see more of these discussions as more public attention is given to draft-eligible players. This player was picked in the first 25 picks and has signed a $1.4 million USD contract. I'm not sure , if you exclude the draft, if that's enough to make him notable but he's getting there. Canuckle 21:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • While it's not an official policy, the baseball WikiProject keeps a notability standard here which, so far as I can tell, is held in decent regard. Notice that it specifically mentions that most minor leaguers aren't notable, not to mention draft picks who might not even be minor leaguers. --fuzzy510 22:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Comment. Thanks for the link. I apologize for not seeing your citation at the start of the discussion. I completely missed it earlier. I agree that "most" minor leaguers are not notable (the project page actually says "generally not notable"). First-round draft picks aren't mentioned at all. That leaves us to assume what it means, and that's not wise. What baseball accomplishment would make a high-school graduate who is just starting his minor-league career notable for Wikipedia? I've changed my vote from Keep to Comment. I'm not sold either way yet but it sounds like there's merits on both sides of the discussion. Canuckle 23:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Per precedent, baseball players are not notable until they have played a gam in the majors. Caknuck 02:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • What? That's a Wikiproject page. Notability is based on how many sources are available for the player. The reason why minor league players wouldn't be considered "notable" would be because there isn't much being written about them. All of you seem to be caught up in these changing guidelines and ignoring how many sources are available about this player.++aviper2k7++ 18:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then perhaps WP:BLP1E is more to your liking, then? --fuzzy510 19:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Read the sources. It does not apply.++aviper2k7++ 19:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I did, and it all boils down to him being drafted. So why isn't it applicable? --fuzzy510 19:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete agreed, wait till he plays a pro game --Bill.matthews 12:57, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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