Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cristiano Ronaldo Jr.

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Cristiano Ronaldo#Family, children and relationships. I see a consensus here to Redirect this article. However, I don't see any argument about "blanking" this page. So, under the Redirect, the article will remain and can be used if, at some point in the future, this article subject achieves notability outside of his family relationships. Liz Read! Talk! 03:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cristiano Ronaldo Jr.[edit]

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Cristiano Ronaldo Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Following Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2023 September 4, the question here is whether to blank-and-redirect this article to Cristiano Ronaldo#Family, children, and relationships. This is a procedural nomination; I am neutral. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:32, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. The fact that a decently sized article has been written on the basis of mostly reliable secondary sources is prima facie evidence of WP:SIGCOV. Football notability guidelines are unimportant when WP:GNG is clearly met. Being in Portuguese is not a reason to discount a source, and the Telegraph and Guardian are not tabloids. WP:NOTINHERITED simply means that a person is not automatically notable because their father is famous; it doesn't mean that we should discount coverage of them just because they probably wouldn't have received that coverage if their father weren't famous. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 07:26, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @King of Hearts If he isn't Cristiano Ronaldo's son, Do you think the media would cover him or care about him? on the other hand, Has CR Jr. done any important work or achievements yet except being the son of a famous football player? If you remove his father from the equation you will find that he is a very ordinary person and not notable, any young player under normal circumstances the media will not pay attention to him. Ibrahim.ID ✪ 13:00, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    But the media is paying an attention to him which has resulted in significant coverage. Discounting significant coverage due to the releation of the individual to his more famous father hints of WP:DONTLIKEIT. Alvaldi (talk) 13:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Please, quote where Guardian mention Cr. JR. Never mentioned him, when you say that he has greatgrandfather as Cape Verdan descents because of being son then it is biorelated article and Original Research. Please read also again wp:I like, wp:I do not like it, wp:notabilty, wp:Significant coverage, and especially Wikipedia:CONTEXTMATTERS (at least title f the telegram article which is routine) Dawid2009 (talk) 14:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or redirect Notability here is completely inherited. We have WP:YOUNGATH to clarify that youth athletes are rarely notable, Ronaldo Jr. hasn't done anything of note that would make him be notable if his football career ended tomorrow, is clearly only receiving coverage because of his notable lineage, and he can be completely and adequately covered on his father's page. SportingFlyer T·C 08:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect as per arguments above.Cortador (talk) 08:33, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect per the above. There are lots of children of celebrities who receive quite a bit of coverage in sources, but per WP:NOTINHERITED and WP:NOPAGE that doesn't mean we're obliged to give them their own article. The real question is whether they have enough independent notability to warrant a page, as for example Brooklyn Beckham does. And I don't think that's the case here.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:19, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect per WP:BIO1E, especially evidenced by how every sentence in the article connects to his father. SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:26, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    BIO1E is specifically about one event, which clearly does not apply here. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 15:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I can access every reference, but of those I can, translated, they are basically about his dad, or at best the son as a feature of his dad, often in the article title. At best, there’s the one about the son commenting on Manchester United, but the text makes multiple references to his dad, and this is a very thin bit of news for a Wikipedia article.
    This continues to the 14th source published 23 Jan 2023, with the sources looking like a rush of coverage petering out. The 14 sources look to be every google hit, with a lot of overlap. SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:00, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect per the above, He is still a young player who has not achieved anything yet or become a professional player. There is no encyclopedic value in creating the article currently. --Ibrahim.ID ✪ 13:08, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep has enough WP:SIGCOV to pass WP:GNG. If the subject had no significant coverage then WP:NOTINHERITED would apply, but in this case it doesn't as there is significant coverage about the subject. WP:BIO1E hardly applies as he is not known for a single event. Any alleged local consensus in WP:FOOTBALL that junior players are not notable is just that, WP:LOCALCONCENSUS that has no bearing on this AfD or any other. Nothing in WP:YOUNGATH says that this individual is not notable. Young athletes are rarely notable because they don't get significant coverage. This one does. And any attempts to discount sources because they are in Portugese or any other language should only be met with a WP:TROUT as there is absolutely no requirements that sources used on Wikipedia have to be english. Alvaldi (talk) 13:42, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The coverage here is routine celebrity churnalism that only exists because of a famous father. WP:YOUNGATH excludes most young athletes because most young athletes haven't actually accomplished anything. At this point, the only thing the subject is famous for is being the child of a celebrity, which is crystal clear from the coverage, which does not talk about the subject as a stand alone entity. As a point of comparison, Bronny James only received an article when he was 18 and clearly had enough talent to play at least college basketball, which is now indeed the case. If the minor subject of this article quits football tomorrow, his youth career would most certainly not be notable. SportingFlyer T·C 15:33, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We've never required people's careers to be notable. We simply require there to be significant coverage in reliable sources, regardless of the subjective reasons for which they might exist. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 15:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We also have WP:NOT which allows us to exclude topics which have coverage, which clearly applies here. SportingFlyer T·C 15:54, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly. It is a common misconception that a large amount of coverage equates to an automatic page. WP:NOPAGE says quite the opposite - satisfying WP:GNG and significant coverage only confers "presumed notability". But it's perfectly permissible and commonplace for such subjects to be covered in summary form in other "parent" pages, where their notability is primarily through one thing, e.g. perpetrators of crimes, family members, characters in films, that sort of thing. CR7 junior's football career would in no way give him any sort of page absent his famous dad, and he is therefore similar to a whole host of other celebrity family members who also don't have their own page.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:25, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    As for short discussion about "career", I would !vote for keep if the article was described properly based on not wp:routine news (for example 10-30 refs where most do not reffer directly to father) but it is simply impossible due to wo:too soon, by the same manner I would also mergre Dondinho with Pele and Georgina Rodríguez with Cristiano Ronaldo but I would remain neutral or oppose to delte if someone fastly improve these two articles to not just summarize content. In my (exlusionist,antirecentism and often deletionist view - I openely admit) Cr JR is nowhere newar to pass too:soon, Georgina perhaps bit boardline but in next 2-5 years we could review both subjects easier and perhaps permamently and separately. Despite taging to Ronaldo, both have worse/shorter google trends than say haxball (a video game which was three times speedy delted); article on very popular influencer Kimberly Loaiza was at least couple times delted on ESwiki before was finally accepted at well written form. Perhaps time will help to improve the article on young Cristiano too. Dawid2009 (talk) 20:48, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:YOUNGATH makes no requirements of any accomplishments, just that the subjects have received, as individuals, substantial and prolonged coverage that is: (1) independent of the subject; and (2) clearly goes beyond WP:ROUTINE coverage and that the coverage is independent from the subject. Alvaldi (talk) 16:31, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep there is enough WP:SIGCOV present in the article based on his own career and separate from any connections with his father. Frank Anchor 15:52, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Which sources in the article cover his career but not in connection to his dad? I haven't seen any.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:28, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed to draftify and redirect mainspace title. upon further review (particularly of non-English sources), the ones that separate Ronaldo, Jr. from his father tend to be more routine in nature (match reports, transactions). I do believe there is a good chance Ronaldo Jr. can become notable on his own merit at some point in the near future. Frank Anchor 13:26, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:58, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Already has many sources, defienitly going to get more in ongoing career. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:40, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect Basically per wp:toosoon. Dawid2009 (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect as above. GiantSnowman 12:05, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect or delete I originally nominated this for AfD and withdrew for a redirect as an WP:ATD, but was involved/wrong for doing so. However I am not convinced by the new sources/cruft articles mentioned. It is WP:TOOSOON and no WP:INHERIT please. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 13:15, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Shushugah: At DR there was permission to go on "rediroct for discussion" before recreating aticle but we agreed to recreate page (revert redirct) for more analyse of the content and eventual vacancy for draftify. Mergre tag has been removed from the article so likely we are on the point to redirect article by bold deletion of content and redirect directly after closing the AfD. Dawid2009 (talk) 20:48, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soft Redirect It's possible in the future this can be an article, however at present, no. Same reasoning at last time I saw when I saw this at [Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cristiano Ronaldo jr AfD]. Govvy (talk) 16:12, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong redirect- per overwhelming consensus, at Cristiano Ronaldo#Family, children and relationships. Won't be notable until playing for a senior club or internationally. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 18:14, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect. Just a boy, going with his father. He played wherevere the father played (or somewhere when the father didn't), the coverage is not about jr., the coverage is about sr.'s son. Look at the article and forget the father, what is there that is encyclopedic? Nothing. - Nabla (talk) 20:22, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect. Not independently notable (yet). Stifle (talk) 10:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep already getting signicant coverage by himself as a youth footballer.--Ortizesp (talk) 23:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect as an WP:ATD. Without additional WP:SIGCOV, this subject fails all notability guidelines. Notability is not inherited, and all of the coverage seems to be in connection with his father. No prejudice towards recreating once the subject receives WP:SIGCOV on his own. User:Let'srun 03:05, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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