Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Pantyhose Battalion

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to 1991–92 Georgian coup d'état#Loyalists. Consensus is that this oddity, which has very scarce soucing, can be briefly mentioned there. Sandstein 09:36, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Black Pantyhose Battalion[edit]

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Accuracy. Tagged with {{hoax}} for a month now, all the sources in the list either seems to be WP:OR and blogs. Does not seem to contain any verifiable information. A a s i m 16:50, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:54, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:54, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I am not entirely sure it's a hoax, as I found one (1) source on Google Books: [1]. But it's in snippet view and literally the only source available so even if this group existed, the information is not verifiable (at least under the name "Black Pantyhose Battalion") and there's no name in the Georgian alphabet to search. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 17:05, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Spoke too soon. They appear to have been better known under the name "Black Stockings". I found [2] (full book at Internet Archive: [3]) and [4], [5] (under the name "Furies"), all of which look reasonably reliable. Not sure where I'll end up !voting wise following this. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 17:21, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - ~~Consider me a weak keep for now.~~ I also found a reference on ProQuest to an Associated Press report that went out on the wire on or around 30 October 1993, referring to the "so-called black stocking women" associated with Gamsakhurdia, but I can't find a full version of the article. This article would need to be pared back substantially to conform to the available sources, I think, but this group does appear to have existed. I would suggest moving to Black Stockings (Georgia) or potentially replacing the redirect at Black Stockings if this is kept, since there's virtually nothing under "Black Pantyhose Battalion". AleatoryPonderings (talk) 17:36, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 17:18, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and redirect to 1991–92 Georgian coup d'état#Loyalists per Lockley below. The English-language sources we have now aren't substantial enough to merit a whole article, and I agree with the POV issues Lockley raises. Incidentally, my punk band Angry Black Socks Battalion will be releasing our debut album soon, so stay tuned for that. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 02:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Hello @AleatoryPonderings: -- here is the sole relevant paragraph from the AP story you were looking for, datelined Tblisi, in this case printed in the St. Joseph (MO) News-Press of October 31 1993: "His most ardent followers have since nurtured a cult of personality around the 54-year-old intellectual. Some of the most devoted are the so-called 'black stocking women,' a term used here for lonely women." And here is a pdf copy of the Helsinki Watch document which the article refers to but does not link to. I agree with you that collection of passing mentions are sufficient to take this out of "hoax" territory, so I'm going to remove the hoax tag. But the article is full of claims & apparent puffery which needs to be sourced or deleted. It would be key to find the Georgian-language version of the phrase. (When I start looking Google seems to think I want foot porn, and I -- just don't.) Unless and until we can develop better references this is effectively unsourced, and must go. --Lockley (talk) 21:45, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Lockley. I guess I'm more inclined to keep and stubbify as opposed to deleting entirely, but I agree that this needs a substantial overhaul (and, perhaps, some more drastic measures) to be suitable for mainspace. As for the Georgian version of the phrase, the English transliteration given in my first source above is Shavi Kolgotebi, which Google Translate phonetically back-transliterates as ჩავი კოლგოტები. Not knowing Georgian, I have no way of telling if this is on the right track, but it may be a start. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 22:00, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hear you, about saving the article if possible. Another possible idea is a redirect to 1991–92 Georgian coup d'état#Loyalists where a four-sentence description of this organization could do, since it's already mentioned there. I'm questioning whether the use of the "militant organization" infobox, the asserted names, especially that word "battalion", the repeated use of "BRB", if all of that tends to unduly promote this as some kind of disciplined fighting force, when that's not consistent with the sources we've found. Googling back the interwiki links gives us "Black Tights Battalion" (fr) and "Angry Black Socks Battalion" (ar). What did they even call themselves, I wonder. --Lockley (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to 1991–92 Georgian coup d'état#Loyalists. I think AleatoryPonderings makes a good case for why that I don't really feel the need regurgitate. Plus, it's already mentioned there anyway. So, I zero reason not to redirect it. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:10, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to the link given above, for reasons given above. --Whiteguru (talk) 11:50, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect for reasons given by User:AleatoryPonderings. Mztourist (talk) 03:52, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. First, I thought this is a legitimate sub-page of 1991–92 Georgian coup d'état. But it actually covers the subject well beyond the 1991–92 Georgian coup d'état. Hence this can be only a separate page. The subject is obviously notable per se. My very best wishes (talk) 15:41, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.