Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ayra

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Those who wanted merge should pursue it editorially; however, the discussion below yields no consensus to merge, nor to delete. Daniel 04:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ayra[edit]

Ayra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Various reasons. The article is mostly game guide material, it includes stats, strategy, and very in-depth, unnecessary details about the game. The character isn't really one of the mains in the game, and can even be skipped over entirely without adding much to the main story. No real world significance or coverage. Goes against the WP:FICT guidelines as far as I can tell. Voretus 16:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Unsure - according to WP:FICT minor character should be merged into the article which might be true in this case, but it also appears that this character is linked to a variety of other characters since there are several redirects to this page. Seems like the character might be of more importance than you think. Plm209 (talk • contribs • count) 17:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's linked from two other characters and a list of characters in the game. The other redirects are all only linked to from non-main namespaces. Voretus 17:29, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - It's an unencyclopedic piece of cruft. The character described is a rather minor part of the game - at most, she deserves a mention on a list of Fire Emblem characters or so. In addition, it seems to be a pet article of User:Tedius Zanarukando, rather than a valid contribution to Wikipedia. Delete or merge to List of Fire Emblem characters. Moogy (talk) 03:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep - There is already enough reliable information about Ayra to warrant an individual article. She is a popular character, and (contrary to what Voretus stated) she has enough real world significance (as I have seen throughout of my years of Fire Emblem fandom), and is more important than you think. The introduction of this article is not intended to be game-guide material. The only game-guide content is after the "Her Story" section. It contains biographical stuff about Ayra and what happened just prior to the events of the game and what happened in the meantime. There is enough real world coverage of the said character in Japanese sources. It is not intended to be unencyclopedic fancruft in any way. This article originally contained fancruft, but it was removed last year. I do not call this my pet article in any way. It is a valid contribution to Wikipedia. A pet article is an article that a particular user likes to edit for pleasure and for the sole purpose of catering to fans. I only edit the article when it is necessary. The main game article Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu may be considered my pet article, but not this character article. I always wander around just about any Fire Emblem related article, not just this article. I am in control of Fire Emblem related articles. There are other characters like Joshua that have individual articles, and they are also reliable. This article is also linked from a table of characters from the Fire Emblem series. The two characters this article is linked from are not the only characters that are associated with Ayra. Cuan is another one associated with her, and an article about him will be likely to this article. Ayra is notable (since Super Smash Bros. Melee) and information about her is too much to be merged into the List of Fire Emblem characters article series. Vorectus has misread the WP:FICT guidelines. The WP:FICT has mentioned an example in favor of this article, such as Star Trek character Noonien Soong. Therefore, like Noonien Soong, she has sufficient depth to sustain an individual article. One solution would be to remove some of the game-guide content. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 18:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Update: The Stats section has been removed from the article by me. This will turn the tide of the discussion to the Keep side of the argument. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 21:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, IronGargoyle 22:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong delete - Completely useless fancruft about a non-notable minor character from a game series and a waste of Wikipedia's bandwith. Besides, she's not even in Super Smash Bros. Brawl (lol). Lip could totally kick her ass. --71.98.100.124 18:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly object to deletion - I strongly object to the anonymous user's statements. That is a poor and false reason to delete the article, which was created three years ago. This article uses only a little of Wikipedia's bandwidth. This is no useless fancruft, and Ayra IS notable to Fire Emblem's English speaking audience. She is a historical character and the first Swordmaster of the series. She has become notable since Super Smash Bros. Melee, and she is still becoming more and more notable. I strongly want her in Super Smash Bros. Brawl as well. She will totally defeat not only Lip, but also the rest of the Nintendo cast. I also want Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu localized to the U.S. Virtual Console. I will very disappointed if this article about my favorite Nintendo character get deleted. If that happens, I will contest the deletion. If this article is deleted, but the said character does become playable in the Super Smash Bros. series, along with fellow Seisen no Keifu character Sigurd, the article will be automatically undeleted. It is very unreasonable to delete this article. This deletion will also inspire me to request the said character to be playable in a Super Smash Bros. game. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 00:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge sourced information (or a small amount of it) to List of Fire Emblem characters. She does not appear to have independent notability. Eluchil404 18:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I object. Ayra may appear to be non-notable to Fire Emblem fans who have little knowledge about her original game, but she actually does have indepenedent notability. Most of the information in the article is based on the game or the related book Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu: Treasure, which is written in Japanese. A translation is found at Fire Emblem Sanctuary of Strategy message board. Her role has been incorrectly measured by people do have a little or no knowledge about Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu. I do not want a substantial amount of information loss. I will not like it if this article is deleted. There is a strong chance that if Nintendo of America elects to localize Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu to North America, Ayra will be proven to have independently notability. George Harrison, a Nintendo of America executive, has said that there is a possibility that the game will be localized to the U.S. Virtual Console. Ayra will sure become notable by then. Her notability includes that she is the first Swordmaster. Many Nintendo gamers outside Japan do not realize her notability. She is especially notable in Japan, and she has a cult fanbase in the United States. If this article gets deleted and my deletion review fails, I will consider resignation from Wikipedia. I probably will quit reading the Fire Emblem related articles for good. The deletion will give me another reason to request Ayra to be playable in the Super Smash Bros. series. The reason that Voretus stated, "very in-depth, unnecessary details about the game", is an invalid reason to delete this article. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 20:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I object This does not fail the fiction guidelines. It may appear to fail the fiction guidelines, but it is actually not the case. The article is difficult to source, but the statements ARE sourceable if you know Japanese. There is enough reliable information for the character to sustain an individual article, but that information is mostly in Japanese. Deleting this article is not right. Consider Lex (Fire Emblem) and Tiltyu (Fire Emblem). There is a chance of improvement. I improved the article some during the debate, by removing game guide content. I created the article for a real reason, not because I like the character. If this article gets deleted, I will have to discuss it with whoever deletes this article and contest it. The article is based on reliable sources, such as the game itself and the Japanese book Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu: TREASURE. The reliable sources for this article are usually in Japanese. You should learn Japanese before deciding the fate of the article. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 21:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fiction articles need out of universe information in order to exist. What went into creating Ayra? Why was she given her personality or looks? How did the critics find her? Is she exciting and fresh or boring and cliche? Has she had any impact upon the world? Has she influenced other characters or parodies? All of that needs to be backed by non-trivial source. That is unlikely for a character from a single game of a mildly popular series. TTN 21:30, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In Japan, the Fire Emblem series is more popular than the Legend of Zelda series. It is gaining a foothold in the United States and Europe. Ayra has influenced the popularity of later Fire Emblem characters, particularly Swordmasters. She is a top-tier member of Sigurd's party, and probably the most popular member. She is the first to use Ryuuseiken (Astra) skill, which is an excellent skill. I found her personality interesting and unique. She is shockingly beautiful, but I do not consider looks a major factor. Most non-trivial sources are written in Japanese. Therefore, this article is difficult to source unless you know Japanese. She is Fire Emblem's first Swordmaster. She has started the tradition of popular swordswoman, especially in Japan. Her original game Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu was the most successful game in the series, particularly in Japan. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 00:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That all has to do with only the series, not real world notability. You need real world information along with in-game information, or you end up with cruft. It is up to the person asserting notability to at least assure us that sources can be found and used. "There are Japanese sources" doesn't cut it unless you actually show something. TTN 00:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What do you define as real-world information? The introduction of the article is considered a mix of real-world information and in-game information. You will have to see the Japanese sources for yourself. We should research for real-world information. All Fire Emblem character articles, even those of Lords, have hardly any of what you call real-world information. Some real-world information might include that Ayra is heavily featured in Japanese fanfics as well as some western fanfics. She cannot always be tied to her original game. There have been talks about her being playable in the Super Smash Bros. series in Nintendo related boards, but this may be speculation and Wikipedia might not want speculation content. Masahiro Sakurai is considering Fire Emblem non-Lords being in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I personally want Ayra playable in that game, although many disagree. Instead of deletion, you should research for any real-world information. Therefore, instead of Delete, Improve. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 01:48, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This is a highly notable character of a highly notable game. A game which, may I add, I don't particlarly like ;) - G1ggy Talk/Contribs 04:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete - There's no real encyclopedic content in this article, and the only reason it seems to have not been deleted yet is because of User:Tedius Zanarukando's unhealthy obsession with the character. In general agreeance with delete or merge to List of Fire Emblem characters. (Anonymous) 4:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
    I object Ayra is my favorite Nintendo character, but I have no unhealthy obsession for her. It is online business, and I just want her to be playable in Super Smash Bros. Brawl because of Lip from Panel de Pon having a high chance of being playable in the game. I watch what is going on in any Fire Emblem related Wikipedia article. The article does have real encyclopedic content, not fancruft or game guide content. The content is actually documented in Fire Emblem related sites and GameFAQs, and in official Japanese sources (such as those published or licensed by Nintendo). This debate is nothing but political garbage. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 23:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or merge: There are lots of Wikipedia articles for obscure anime characters. This place doesn't have to be boring political crap from one end to the other.--Mike18xx 09:16, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I prefer Keep over Merge. If this article is deleted or merge, I will suffer emotional distress. I am not obsessed with the character. Final Fantasy is my first love, not Fire Emblem. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 23:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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