Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Area codes in Germany (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. But please, do clean up the thing. —Kurykh 18:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Area codes in Germany[edit]

I am renominating this article after no consensus last time. Wikipedia is not a directory, or a phone book. This is not encyclopedic. I feel very strongly that this content need be deleted. Anonymous Dissident^Talk 02:57, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom.Oyster Guitarst 03:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom.Hirohisat ^{Freedom of Speech} 03:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Can be distinctively useful in understanding geographic distribution and usage of phone area codes. However, I will change my vote if it can be demonstrated that this information is available, accessible, and in a simple format, off-wiki. -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 04:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:NOT. It doesnt matter if its useful - to you. We are building an encyclopaedia, not a phone book. Anonymous Dissident^Talk 04:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete It should not be wikipedia's concern if the information is easily avaliable and accessible elsewhere. Wikipedia is not a phonebook. Might want to merge it to the main Germany article though. Corpx 05:01, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above. I dont know about merging all the content, obviously, but the main point of this article (if there is actually, a main point to this.. mess [sorry, but it has to be said]) could possibly be integrated into the Germany article. Anonymous Dissident^Talk 09:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Now who will be brave enough to tackle North American area codes, since if German ones aren't suitable for Wikipedia neither are most North American ones (321 and 867 might be given the non-trivial third party interest in their creation, but the others...?) --Charlene 05:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOT aka Delete per Anonymous Dissident Rackabello 06:03, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Super-strong keep and delete... Why not keep the introductory paragraph (or an improved version thereof) and delete the list? It is not really the task of an encyclopaedia to list every area code in the world, but a description of the system through which area codes are assigned in a certain country is probably of general interest (although telephone numbers are not as relevant to most people's everyday life as minor pokemon characters, obviously). Pharamond 06:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would endorse this too! Corpx 08:02, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and cleanup. The article drills down into too much detail per area code. If the article only went down to say the 4 digit codes, the artice wouldn't be so massive and would make a useful list. Reform this list similar to List of North American area codes. Also, the way I interpret Wikipedia is not a directory is that area code listings are definitely not phone book listings, in the way that they do not go down to the actual telephone numbers do in the White or Yellow Pages. --Breno ^talk 06:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. The introductory paragraph might be useful somewhere though. Hut 8.5 10:45, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and expand The history of area codes, exchange codes, and other telephone numbers (postal codes too) is extraordinarily useful for determining the date of a document. For example, if one comes across an undated letter that uses the New York City code 646 one can assign a terminus post quem to the letter. What I'd particularly like would be a list of telephone codes for Germany during the period 1900 to 1945, with information on what changed when. This article can be the basis for that.Jmkleeberg 12:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per above. Mandsford 13:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Thruppence 14:05, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not a phone book Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 20:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment As I mentioned above Wikipedia is not a directory would mean the list has the name and actual numbers of people/companies. Coupld someone explain how this policy relates to a list of area codes? Thanks. --Breno ^talk 13:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Think of it this way: Have you ever seen anything like this in any other encyclopedia anywhere? In Brittanica or in a print encyclopedia? You wont have. Thats why this is being proposed for deletion on an encyclopedia. You may have seen something like this in a phone book or directory, and so that is where this unencyclopedic content belongs. I rest my case. Anonymous Dissident^Talk 22:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Ok but Wikipedia is not paper. --Breno ^talk 06:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - True. But its not a directory either. Anonymous Dissident^Talk 07:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        Which comes back to the original question. After re-reading the 4-point WP:NOT#DIR policy, can I please get a clear statement how this policy applies. This list does not contain loosely associated topics, phonebook entries, business resources, or sales catalogues. The only part I'd say is open to interpretation on is point 3 where it links to Directory (databases), which states a directory is a repository or database of information. Weither some read this as a list of area codes are a repository or database, or indeed any "List of..." articles, is open to interpretation. Again, if someone else can clarify how this policy applies to this article I'm all ears. Thanks. --Breno ^talk 14:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and improve. There might be a question about some of the list content, but not really of the article.DGG 00:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and improve per DGG, more than just a list or telephone directory. Carlossuarez46 23:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I'll try not to pull WP:USEFUL as an argument, (and I'm generally not a fan of lists) but we have a list which is 1) well-defined 2) satisfying WP:LIST#Purpose of lists#Information. I don't think WP:NOT#DIRECTORY applies: this is not a directory of loosely related data, but of cities. I do acknowledge that Category:Telephone numbering plans and Category:Area codes are in a major mess in organization, naming and formatting, but I don't see why getting rid of well-organized information expanding Telephone_numbering_plan/European#Germany. If the consensus be that we don't need any such list (why Germany but not Austria? Or as a precedent?), so be it; but it needs a wider input from the community, at least in the form of a mass AfD. Duja► 11:10, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Its late where I live, but tomorrow, I'll mass nom every single article "Area codes in X". I just cant believe that this should be on wikipedia. Also WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS about your claim about "why Germany but not Austria?" Anonymous Dissident^Talk 11:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment. My remark regarding Austria wasn't meant as WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS but rather a request for clarification. If you wanted this one deleted as precedent, you just should have said so; mass nominations often work better that way (see e.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anti-Hellenism, which caused an avalanche of deletion of similar crap). If one fails, it's probably better to stay away from mass-nominating all (otherwise, the people will tend to accuse you of being WP:POINTy.) Personally, I find WP:LIST criteria somewhat vague, so the arguments in LfDs often boil down to WP:USEFUL. I wouldn't be terribly upset if it's gone, but I do think that it's... erm... useful. Duja► 15:56, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - If this time the list has consensus to keep or delete, it will probably set precedence for other Area code list articles. Might be best to wait a few more days on the outcome before taking on the project. --Breno ^talk 14:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Wikipedia is not paper. This can be a list page that links to the regions that the area codes corresponds to. If this is deleted, then *all* area code lists, and country code lists should be deleted. 70.55.86.129 04:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete list would be endless and provides no useful information.--Sefringle^Talk 06:03, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 12:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep unless we're going to go about deleting all lists. dcandeto 20:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The idea of integrating this into the Germany goes against the idea of offloading sub-content from articles that are large already. The cited WP:NOT#DIRECTORY clearly doesn't apply simply for the notability of each entry. Agathoclea 15:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and rewrite. I interpret "directory" in WP:NOT#DIR as lists of actual telephone numbers of people and businesses, not a list of area codes. However, I do agree that the article is a whole mess; it took a long time to load on my computer! --Joshua ^{Say "hi" to me!}_{What have I done?} 14:52, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Area codes fit within Wikipedia is not a directory - Directories, directory entries, electronic program guide, or a resource for conducting business. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 06:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.