Talk:Orchestra/Archives/2014

Standard Instrumentation

The list of "Modern Orchestra" requires additional consideration. It is certainly true that composers may require all manner and number of weird and wonderful instruments to be added to the orchestra for individual works, but a distinction should be made between these occasional additions and the standard or "core" instrumentation of the typical symphony orchestra.

It is, for example, overly ambitious to list "1 - 6 saxophones" with the compliment of the modern orchestra. While many fine orchestral works have been written which include a saxophone, one may also sit through entire seasons of major symphony orchestra performances without hearing a single note played on a saxophone. The same goes for cornets, euphoniums, etc.

Regarding guitar (with microphone), as a guitarist I would love to see an entire section of guitars become part of the orchestra's standard instrumentation, but alas, such is currently not the reality. A single amplified guitar would most often appear in the context of a concerto, as the solo instrument. But for that matter concertos have been written for everything from kazoo to bagpipes, and I wouldn't suggest including these instruments in the list, either.

A similar coment could be made regarding percussion -- where literally anything, including the kitchen sink -- may be requested; there is no need for an exhaustive listing in -this- article. A short list of the standard percussion instruments/categories would suffice, with a link to the "Percussion" article for details on the seemingly infinite collection of things percussionists are occasionally called upon to play.

One further comment about the number of instruments in each section: this varies widely from orchestra to orchestra, and some of the ranges given are too large; others too small.

I would suggest the following "standard" or "core" list for the modern orchestra:

• 2-4 flutes (one doubling piccolo)
• 2-4 oboes (one doubling English horn)
• 2-4 clarinets (one doubling bass clarinet)
• 2-4 bassoons (one doubling contrabassoon)

• 4-8 French horns
• 3-6 trumpets
• 3-6 trombones (one doubling bass trombone)
• 1-2 tubas (one doubling eupohonium)

• 1 timpanist (3-6 timpani)
• 2-4 percussionists, covering:
  • drums (snare, bass, tenor, etc.)
  • cymbals and gongs/tam tams
  • chimes and bells
  • keyboard percussion (xylophone, glockenspeil, etc.)
  • ancillary percussion (triangle, wood block, etc.)

• 1-2 harps

• 12-20 violins I
• 10-18 violins II
• 8-14 violas
• 8-14 cellos
• 6-10 double bases

In the modern orchestra there will often be one player in each section who specializes on the "doubling" instrument (e.g., piccolo, bass clarinet, etc.)

There is also frequently a keyboardist or two on staff to cover ensemble piano, celesta, or organ parts, when they appear.

My $0.02 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.206.184.109 (talk) 00:04, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

To my eye that is quite an accurate list: feel free to update the article. We get lots of drive-by edits by people adding whatever auxiliary instrument they want to see included, and of course there are dozens of such instruments, all more or less uncommon. Antandrus (talk) 00:50, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

I think "saxophone" and "euphonium" should be placed in parentheses. The saxophone is used in quite a few major works. I thought it odd, too, when someone changed it from just "(saxophone)" to "(1-6 saxophones (soprano, 1-2 altos, 1-2 tenors, baritone))". I was going to revert it back, but no one seemed to have a problem. Saxophilist (talk) 20:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Also, I recommend putting "trumpet" before "French horn" in the list. Saxophilist (talk) 21:03, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

The order (horns, trumpets, trombones, tuba) is correct, based on the typical order for orchestral scores (perhaps because the brass row is usually in that order). Tayste (edits) 21:21, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

You are correct. I was thinking of range, from highest to lowest. Saxophilist (talk) 21:57, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Sections of an orchestra

The Sections of an orchestra article has almost no content (and no verifiable content) and appears to be an unfinished draft. The few sentences of content should be sourced and merged into the Instrumentation section of the Orchestra article. Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 16:48, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 14:07, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

When does the concertmaster appear on stage?

The article says: "In some U.S. orchestras, the concertmaster comes on stage after the rest of the orchestra is seated, shakes hands with the conductor, takes a bow and receives applause." Well, in continental European orchestras, the concertmaster appears together with the other musicians, no extra bow or applause, although the concertmaster may get an extra handshake from the conductor after the latter arrived on stage. In the British and U.S. orchestras that I have seen in concert, the concertmaster would walk out after the other orchestra members and before conductor (and soloists, if applicable), getting an extra round of applause. I have never seen, and cannot imagine, a conductor waiting on stage for the concertmaster to appear! As the conductor would have to, according to the quoted passage in the article, in order to shake hands with the concertmaster before the latter bows and receives applause. Mbshu (talk) 12:42, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

I will change this now in the article. Mbshu (talk) 21:51, 22 May 2014 (UTC)