Talk:Monster Hunter Rise

Mainline or not?

The main source of the claim that rise is a mainline title is Arekkz's video, but that doesn't state that it's a mainline title, only that the developers do not consider it a derivative or spinoff title and that they are moving away from numbered titles as a whole.

I feel like there has been something lost in translation/some misunderstanding about this, as in general rise is considered akin to the portable games or generations due to it being developed by the team designated for them, as well as belonging to the "fifth generation" of monster hunter games that World started (as it is in essence monster hunter 5). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aeonera (talk • contribs)

At the same time, its original research to assume that because it is a portable title (for the Switch) or developed by the Generations team that it must be a spinoff. The info from the video is more concrete to work from at this point (in addition to the change in naming scheme). --Masem (t) 01:48, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

It is a "main entry", but not a "numbered entry". Capcom previously confirmed the Logo Theory to be correct in that the next main numbered title in indicated by a corresponding number of monster heads in the logo (MH1 had one, MH2 has two, so on and so forth), which lends to the idea that Rise is not a "numbered" entry as World was confirmed to be. Rise is the latter-half of fifth Gen, and is more of an interquel or side game (not unlike how Birth By Sleep is an important and main title for Kingdom Hearts, but is not a "numbered" main title). Claiming it is the "sixth" would be incorrect either way, otherwise we would need to include Generations as well (making this the "seventh").

So no, MH Rise is not the sixth iteration of the series. It is either the seventh or it is the second side game, which Capcom statements lending more to the latter than the former.

Capcom is on record stating that Rise is not the "next" game, but is a mainline game unlike Generations. Calling it the "sixth" mainline game would be is not entirely inaccurate, but it misrepresents the title potentially as "Monster Hunter 6" itself. Capcom also previously confirmed the "Monster Head Theory", in which the start of a new generation can be identified by a corresponding number of monster heads in the first logo of the first game of said generation. This phenomenon is visible in MH1, Dos, Tri, MH4, and World, and Capcom was no longer shy about confirming it when asked a couple of years ago.

Rise should continue to be listed as the "sixth mainline entry", but we should also be taking care to also confirm that this is not "Monster Hunter 6".2001:1998:3600:9F:0:0:0:80F (talk) 15:29, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Unless publishers have state *explicitly* that the game is or is not “Monster Hunter 6”, any speculation based on the shape of a logo is synthesis, and therefore inadmissible here.

Further, the distinction between "the sixth mainline entry" in the series and a game which is somehow "Monster Hunter 6" but not actually called that is *entirely* meaningless. There is and presumably never will be any such game as “Monster Hunter 6”. Pseudo-Pseudo-Dionysius (talk) 00:17, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

They just announced Monster Hunter Wilds. If you look at the logo you'll notice that it depicts 6 wyvern heads. All the mainline games have depicted a number of heads relevant to its placement in the series. Can we please update the page to show MH Rise as a portable title? 75.117.110.119 (talk) 04:28, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

That's WP:SYNTH, at this point. Masem (t) 04:29, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

it really seems like your basing your conclusion that it's mainline off of one offhand dev comment rather than the large amount of evidence that MH rise is not mainline. Why ignore all other information? 75.117.110.119 (talk) 13:02, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

We have no statement that Rise is NOT a mainline title, and the only evidence being provided are unsourced claims and guesses made by patterns from prior series releases. None of that works for WP.

If the Wilds devs come out to stay it is the 6th mainline, then absolutely we can change Rise. Masem (t) 13:04, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

"If the Wilds devs come out to stay it is the 6th mainline, then absolutely we can change Rise." saving this here so you can't delete it.

I will bring this up if that happens and you refuse to change it. We know you are unwilling to admit you are wrong despite evidence that you are. 75.117.110.119 (talk) 14:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

We're simply going off the requirement that we cannot make assumptions absent any sources to say otherwise. Nothing indicates Rise is a spinoff directly, but we have a statement that says it was considered mainline. Now if they retroactively say Wilds is the 6th mainline (we know World is 5th), then there you go, proof that we can adjust Rise appropriately to be a spinoff. But WP works on having sources say this, not Internet sleuths or claimed expert players for this. Masem (t) 15:41, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

It won't be retroactive, you'll just have been wrong. 75.117.110.119 (talk) 04:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

This is a misnomer, wyvern heads show what generation the series is currently in not order of the games. World is roughly the 18th game(+10 if you count all the ultimate editions which I do as different games) in the series going by release order.

What is happening is an argument over semantics when one side seems to be levying the outcome to outcast and ridicule select games in the series. Capcom considers all expansions spin-offs so MH3U, MH4U, MHX, MHXX(spin off of a spin off), Iceborne, and Sunbreak. This information is from gaijinhunter, https://x.com/aevanko/status/1293012642714382337?lang=en. It is common place on reddit, 4chan to use the word "spin-off" in a disparaging way to insult the games they do not like.

So I offer a simple fix to this battle over labeling games 'people dont like', remove all mention of 'mainline' and 'portable' from the Monster Hunter Series. Put every single release in order, In Example MH tri, MH portable 3rd, MH3U. Edit the games with visible wyvern heads to state what generation the game is without downplaying or insulting other titles in the Monster Hunter series. 98.200.0.234 (talk) 22:30, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Except we have the developers speaking up as to what is a mainline and what is a spin-off; this isn't a random fan distinction. — Masem (t) 04:20, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I looked through the references for one that included information about mainline. In 3 of the references, I found the word "mainline", 2 were in user comments so obliviously these are just people talking and the one referenced article is from Game Informer, "As for other monsters you’ll have to contend with on your way through Master Rank, the giant crab beast Shogun Seanataur is making its long-awaited return to the mainline series. ", https://www.gameinformer.com/2021/09/30/new-monster-hunter-rise-sunbreak-details-revealed-at-tgs-2021.

Now what I am getting at is why even bother to include or argue if its "mainline", "spin-off", or "Portable" when we can just remove all such statements. Like I said above Monster Hunter is a series that has been running for 20 years now, they have released a total of 63 games, (https://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/salesdata.html#:~:text=Monster%20Hunter%20is%20one%20of,in%20all%20of%20video%20games.). It's well known that Capcom switched to names for the games so they no longer have to number them and although some would believe that counting wyvern heads signifies the order of the games which is a little wrong, it really just shows what generation the game is and that is all. So if Capcom doesn't care that much why even have the words be there in the first place? As linked above in the Gaijinhunter tweet, personality that has followed the series, says that "And Yes, Monster Hunter Generations is considered a spin-off, so are the Ultimate releases of past games and Iceborne. They are “spin-off expansions” of the base generation. Capcom refers to them as spin-offs as well. It’s not a dirty word like some try make it out to be! Lol", https://x.com/aevanko/status/1293012642714382337?lang=en. So to be truly sincere to how Capcom does it we would need to put a "spin-off" reference to every ultimate version of the game. And if you open gaijinhunter's tweet, you can see he is referenced a leaked slide from Capcom themselves, something they wouldn't release themselves to the public I believe.

So this brings me to my point that since Capcom will hardly refer to the games as a "mainline", "spin-off", and "portable" game and most of this information is really just hearsay on the internet often used as insults and jokes and to insult others. Doesn't that make it very close or pretty much Synth and can be safely removed from articles. In reality the most we can go on is when the games were released. HunterTenno (talk) 06:25, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I also just checked the steam store pages for the following products. These steam store pages are most likely setup by someone working on the marketing team for Capcom so how they describe their games to sell to customers I believe would also show how Capcom wants their customers to view their games. I presume these store pages can not be edited by someone who does not work at Capcom.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/582010/Monster_Hunter_World/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1118010/Monster_Hunter_World_Iceborne/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1446780/MONSTER_HUNTER_RISE/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1880360/Monster_Hunter_Rise_Sunbreak/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2246340/Monster_Hunter_Wilds/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2356560/Monster_Hunter_Stories/

The links above do not use the words "main", "mainline", "spin-off", or "portable", to describe their product.

I did not look at tags for the games or through review comments for this. As tags are chosen by the steam community and reviews are written by users.

The following link has a reference to "main series", it did not elaborate further.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1277400/Monster_Hunter_Stories_2_Wings_of_Ruin/

"The improved turn-based combat system allows you to experience the excitement of the main Monster Hunter titles while engaging in epic, strategic fights with monsters you encounter during your adventure."

If whatever forward facing entity for Capcom is publishing these store fronts, they seem to not involve themselves in the muddy waters of what is a "mainline", "spin-off", or "portable" title themselves. I think these pages would be the prime location for Capcom to let this information to be known.

Capcom doesn't want customers thinking in "mainline", "spin-off", or "portable", they want people to play their games they created. If they wanted people to think in this way it would be presented in a more forward matter. SO what I'm getting at is that most of these talking point are just internet hearsay which would make it fall into Synth HunterTenno (talk) 06:50, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I see it has been reference in this talk page but no link has been posted for when EMEA Capcom Community Manager Josh Dahdrai was interviewed by Youtube channel, Arekkz Gaming, https://mynintendonews.com/2020/09/20/capcom-talks-monster-hunter-rise-details-such-as-framerate-and-post-launch-support/.

In bullet points for the interview MR Dahdrai confirms that Monster Hunter Rise,

"

-Traditional but fresh Monster Hunter experience

-Retains all of the DNA of the Monster Hunter series

-Not considered a derivative or spin-off title

-The Monster Hunter team is more interested in naming the products in a way that represents what they have to offer?

"

My goal here is to not get these words removed to slander or belittle rise as I quite enjoyed it. It's just that Capcom does not represent the series in the way, and the use of these words are really just the way the series has been talked about on the internet. HunterTenno (talk) 07:21, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Rise without World

Is this a game where you wouldn't understand as much playing the recent Rise without playing it's preceding titles such as World?

Sort of like how if you play Disgaea 2 without playing Disgaea 1 first you won't get as much of the lore (won't recognize Laharl or Etna who are major chars)

There's an element of that in playing Disgaea 1 without playing La Pucelle but to a reduced degree since it's just a cameo monster who serves you and not someone who joins the main party like Etna does in D2.

Guess I'm wondering if these are standalone games (like most Final Fantasy games, least the older ones) or ones with continuous story that you miss by skipping (ie Legacy of Kain or Blood Omen) earlier games.

It's not always clear what type of series it is. WakandaQT (talk) 17:52, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't think its necessary to notate it on the article itself, but mainline MH titles don't have much of an upfront overarching story. The stories are instanced to specific continents or landmasses and have little-to-no connection to or cameos from other games outside of weapons, armors, and monsters. As such, knowing much from previous games isn't necessary at all.2001:1998:3600:9F:0:0:0:80F (talk) 21:06, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

After Malzeno

Should we add the story arc that appears after you defeat Malzeno? It is after all important to the plot. Gaismagorm (talk) 13:27, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Never mind it looks like it was added Gaismagorm (talk) 13:54, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Sunbreak Plot Synopsis

There’s been some disagreement over large portions of the Sunbreak plot synopsis. I have attempted to keep the synopsis streamlined to focus on the key points of the plot. Another version adds more details that seem unnecessary to a simple synopsis. Rather than undoing each other’s edits, let’s discuss them here and try to come to a compromise. ShteeK (talk) 03:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)