This talk page has a history of high levels of activity. Please check to see whether your additional content can be added to an existing discussion section, and please make new section titles as precise as possible.
Note 2
Please complete citations attached to article content with fields such as Author, Title, URL, Date, Publisher/Work, Agency and Access Date. (See footnotes guide above.) (If you would like to copy the footnotes guide to your userpage, put this template in the Edit Page – {{User:P123ct1/My template}} – and it will display the guide.)
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. Ifconsensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
This question has been raised over 40 times on the talk page, without any proposal other than the September 2021 and August 2013 discussions resulting in a page move. Now archived, those discussions can be read here and searched here.
Past names, both used and considered, have included: "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria", "Islamic State of Iraq and (al-)Sham", "Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria", "Islamic State", "The Islamic State", "Islamic State (Middle East)", "Islamic State (Organisation)".
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
Ajnad Foundation was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 19 July 2020 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Islamic State. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
Islamic State received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
Worldwide caliphate was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 8 September 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Islamic State on 8 September 2022. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iraq, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Iraq on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IraqWikipedia:WikiProject IraqTemplate:WikiProject IraqIraq articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Terrorism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on terrorism, individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TerrorismWikipedia:WikiProject TerrorismTemplate:WikiProject TerrorismTerrorism articles
"ISIS not the Islamic state it fiercely claims to be". Olean Times Herald. March 18, 2015. I approach Wikipedia cautiously as to whether its abundant information on a multitude of subjects is complete and authoritative. But I salute the site for its numerous citations concerning the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS — specifically the "criticism of the name 'Islamic State' and 'caliphate' declaration" (found under its entry for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant).
Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.
With respect to any reverting restrictions:
Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.
Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism.
Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction.
Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance.
If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!
Other talk page banners
This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2014 and 2015.
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report24 times. The weeks in which this happened:
Islamic State of Iraq and Syria → Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, Moved, 13 August 2013, /Archive 1#Rename
RM, Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, Not moved (but moved back to "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant"), 12 June 2014, /Archive 2#Requested Move
RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → The Islamic State, No consensus, 29 June 2014, /Archive 3#Requested move 2
RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, Procedurally closed, 31 July 2014, /Archive 3#Requested move
Short description, Propose change from militant to terrorist[edit]
Short description ought to describe in short the organization. ISIS is considered a terrorist organization by a grand majority of nations. It is important I think to include this in the description. Homerethegreat (talk) 19:04, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MY MESSAGE TO you DED islmc usa you MOST PARPAR FOR MY WAR TO CITY &CITY YOU ARE IN USA YOU MOST BELIVE 77% OF YOU IWILL KILL IN USA BY ATOMC NUCLAER EXPLOING PARPAR FOR MY ATTACK ONE THNGS IPRMISE YOU you & your family IS DED IN USA 2024 24.86.145.245 (talk) 04:29, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Value-laden labels – such as calling an organization a cult, an individual a racist, sexist, terrorist, or freedom fighter, or a sexual practice a perversion – may express contentious opinion and are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use in-text attribution. Avoid myth in its informal sense, and establish the scholarly context for any formal use of the term.
It does say this though. And since it's widely referred to as such, perhaps it ought to be referred to as such? Homerethegreat (talk) 11:39, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Homerethegreat It's not only referred to as such, but by all definitions it is. Including Wikipedia's own. If something needs an editing, it's Wikipedia's rules about writing "terror". Online encyclopedia must not publish misinformation. RotoBanana (talk) 14:01, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In short, can we changed the short description so that it says terrorist instead of militiant? Homerethegreat (talk) 22:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MY MESSAGE TO you DED islmc usa you MOST PARPAR FOR MY WAR TO CITY &CITY YOU ARE IN USA YOU MOST BELIVE 77% OF YOU IWILL KILL IN USA BY ATOMC NUCLAER EXPLOING PARPAR FOR MY ATTACK ONE THNGS IPRMISE YOU you & your family IS DED IN USA 2024 24.86.145.245 (talk) 04:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Homerethegreat @RotoBanana @PhilKnightNo, don't label them terrorist. If you make an exception for the worst of the worst, it will end up causing problems with people trying to apply the term "terrorist" to more controversial groups. Stick to just saying that they are a "designated terror org" by everyone and enemy of everyone. BottleOfSoup (talk) 20:48, 5 April 2024 (UTC) edited BottleOfSoup (talk) 11:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is probably of note that only the White House referred to ISIS as ISIL to start with, and after many years only few media outlets began using ISIL. It was a means of knowing the level of bias of the story, a dog whistle if you would, whether it was straight from the White House typewriter or not. It's sort of how now they're doing the same with Kiev to Kyiv. You know when you see 'Kyiv' it's going to be a very particular political piece, where when you see Kiev it could be just about anything.
In a few hundred years no one will know who they are, but in the short term there's probably a lot of people who don't know that no one besides CNN, MSNBC and Obama ever uttered the word 'ISIL' for quite a few years. And the obsessive pushing of this weird dog whistle (especially odd given ISIS themselves never used ISIL) just seemed absurd and weird because back then it wasn't normal for people to randomly redefine words or meddle with language to control information. 2001:8003:2956:4300:5848:7501:95E2:4A48 (talk) 06:43, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They actually never used Isis. In Arabic the group was called "Ad-dawlah al-Islamiyyah fil-Iraq wash-Sham”
See? No mention of Syria because in the group unique terminology,they refer to Syria as ash-Sham. Now this name is used by many to encompass the countries of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine. One English equivalent of it is the term Levant. Now, IS have abandoned this name since 2014, and refer to themselves as only IS or as "the Caliphate" 188.161.10.191 (talk) 19:34, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So people referring to the ISK attack on Moscow as ISIL is a spectacular dog whistle?
But it sounds like for the previous entity Levant was a much closer translation?
Levant would be a faulty translation. Use "Iraq and Syria" and "Syria". Probably the safest translation is "Syria". The most common is probably "Iraq and Syria". If you want to be special, "greater Syria".
One organization widely seen as having created IS, Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, used "Land of the Two Rivers" and "Mesopotamia" often.
"Bilad Al Sham" meaning Syria (as in the region, not the country) is sometimes translated as Levant, and media even reports that "ISIL" used this name (by quoting as if verbatim!) but they didn't! They called themselves Dawla islamiyyah fi al Iraq wa al-Sham. This should be translated as "Islamic state in Iraq and Syria" or "Islamic state in Bilad al sham".
The other term which Al qaeda certainly used but I'm not sure if Dawla did is "Bilad al-Rafidayn", aka Iraq/Mesopotamia.
In general, "Levant" is an awkward term.
And all this has absolutely zero to do with "Khorasan", or IS-K, and if people are still using the term ISIL on the news, I don't know what sort of style guide they use. Freyheytlid (talk) 23:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why ISIS never attack Israel and don't have Islamic ideology of helping Palestinians. ISIS also was fund by USA never mentioned here. 175.142.66.251 (talk) 17:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It no longer exists since January 1st, 2024, so why keep it in here? Poetic450 (talk) 10:50, MARCH MY MESSAGE TO you DED islamic usa you MOST PARPAR FOR MY WAR TO CITY &CITY YOU ARE IN USA YOU MOST BELIVE 77% OF YOU IWILL KILL IN USA BY ATOMC NUCLAER EXPLOING PARPAR FOR MY ATTACK ONE THNGS IPRMISE YOU you & your family IS DED IN USA 2024 24.86.145.245 (talk) 04:16, 23 March 2024
the Infobox is INCREDIBLY uncomfortable to read. Is there any things we think we can do to shorten it? With the insane amounts of dropdowns, mobile reading is essentially impossible. I guarantee a ton of this is not needed in the infobox. IEditPolitics (talk) 02:01, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Realistically, everyone is their enemy? But listening every country and evey irregular militant group will get out of hand, is there a way to prioritise? BottleOfSoup (talk) 20:08, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, that's easy, we just lost the The Global Coalition against Daesh as an enemy itself? BottleOfSoup (talk) 20:09, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ISLAMIC STATE —> ISIL? where is the Islamic State proper?[edit]
Today, Dawla has no more territory in "Syria and the Levant". This was never an accurate nickname but today it's lost every crumb of empirical basis. Therefore, this article should be reworked, or a new master page should be created, which would describe Islamic State in the most general sense, rather than localizing it in the first sentence. Freyheytlid (talk) 22:59, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also "Syria and the Levant" is incredibly confusing as using those terms together forces "Syria" into the sense where it delimits the modern nation-state, which is sure to confuse readers, as that's not how Dawla means it. Freyheytlid (talk) 23:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While the use of either one or the other acronym has been the subject of debate, the distinction between the two and its relevance has been considered not so great. Of greater relevance is the name Daesh, which is an acronym of ISIL's Arabic name ad-Dawlah al-Islamīyah fī l-ʻIrāq wa-sh-Shām"
Who considers it not so great? The author of this section of the article evidently thought that linking to the 2 dec 2015 BBC article Isis, Isil, IS or Daesh? One group, many names is enough to settle the matter. It's absolutely not. First, the article doesn't support the assertion. In fact, all of the points made in the article are about the importance of the question of IS' local names and their English translations.
Moreover, the very existence of such an article supports my assertion that the difference is important, and knocks down that assertion to the contrary. Why is this idea a part of such an important article? Why is a self-defeating sentence introducing the section of the article which should not exist if the sentence was true? I don't want to remove it without making a post about it first saying this should definitely be removed. Freyheytlid (talk) 23:51, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I realize in that passage I refer to the Wikipedia article as important article and the passage I am critiquing as "important section of the article", but there I am referring to the Wikipedia article.
However, when I say the very existence of such an article proves my assertion, I am referring to the news article. Freyheytlid (talk) 23:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This section of the articlewikipedia
The article doesn't support the assertion newsFreyheytlid (talk) 23:55, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]