Talk:Flying Spaghetti Monster/Archive 15

Driver license?

Shouldn't this be cited anywhere? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

The guy who took his Driver License photo with a FSM headgear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.125.10.6 (talk) 21:13, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

It is. Please see the section about "Headgear in identity photos". --Tryptofish (talk) 21:32, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 April 2013

The link to source #1 is broken, the trailing slash needs to be removed from the link. Vylandia (talk) 12:59, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

 Done All fixed Pol430 talk to me 14:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Featured Article Status

Has anyone looked into moving this into a featured article? I think it'd be a good candidate. I looked through the archives and saw that one previous user suggested this, and nobody commented. I'd be willing to make the inquiries into how to make this happen and start the process, though I'll be the first to admit I have only limited content experience and mainly focus on counter-vandalism. --Jackson Peebles (talk) 23:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

The process for becoming a featured article is described in WP:FAC#Nomination procedure. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:20, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

There are some comments at Wikipedia:Peer_review/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster/archive1. I am pretty sure they have all been addressed, but it wouldn't hurt to double check -- perhaps further effort will be Touched By His Noodly Appendage...

I addressed one of the ones that wasn't covered, before. --Jackson Peebles (talk) 05:07, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Hmmmm. I wonder if the FA process is too serious to be able to survive a few Praise The Pasta jokes... --Guy Macon (talk) 07:43, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

The article currently has four {{deadlink}}s in the Notes. One should probably fix them (if all else fails, use {{wayback}} ) before applying for FA. Mitch Ames (talk) 08:04, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Checking on this. Already applied for the FA, so I'm afraid you're too late . Not much feedback, though. See the template, above. --Jackson Peebles (talk) 05:07, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps the procedural comment at the FAC is deterring reviews until the issue is resolved? Praemonitus (talk) 01:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Quite possibly. I'd be perfectly happy to have someone else take over the request; after all, this isn't my article; I'd just like to see it get some recognition! Any volunteers? --Jackson Peebles (talk) 08:21, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I just volunteered, but I wouldn't mind if someone else wants to be the nominator -- I am not really into amassing large amounts of whuffie. :) --Guy Macon (talk) 12:14, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Issues identified at FAC

See Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Flying Spaghetti Monster/archive1.

The following is from a comment by Praemonitus on the above page:

• "All of the citations need to be properly formatted in a consistent manner. Examples: 'Billy Townsend'", '"Kent Hovind'", '"John Chambliss'", '"RD Magazine'", '"El Pais'", '"Carole M. Cusack'", '"DIY Flying Spaghetti Monster bumper sticker'", the bare link for reference 72, &c."
• "What makes The Big Announcement a reliable source? Or Ramendan? Even under WP:SELFPUB, do they speak for the 'movement' as a whole?"
• "There is no direct link between the paragraph about the 'Kansas State Board of Education' and the remainder of the article. Yes it is related to the bigger issue of teaching ID, but there is no clear link to FSM. If this can not be established, then I think the paragraph should be removed."

--Guy Macon (talk) 22:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

• Another issue Issues identified at FAC: "The article cites web forums as sources" [1] (presumably the citations to www.venganza.org/forum). We need to either find better sources or remove those sources and any claims supported only by them. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:49, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

In some cases, removing the claims may be a bigger problem than being a GA instead of an FA. Just saying. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Changing "Religion = none" to "Religion = Atheist" on BLP infoboxes

FYI: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Changing "Religion = none" to "Religion = Atheist" on BLP infoboxes

Anyone want to argue for "Religion = Pastafarianism"? (smile) --Guy Macon (talk) 09:36, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

No no no if it is to describe a person, it needs to be "Pastafarian." (srs bzns) Seriously, a BLP article could label the subject as a Pastafarian if and only if they self-identify as such, and such an identification is a prominent part of their notability.

Thanks for the heads-up, but I don't think I'll be going over there and chiming in just yet. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 15:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Pastafarians Detained in Moscow

8 'Pastafarians' Detained in Moscow During Unsanctioned 'Pasta Procession':

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130817/182823785/8-Pastafarians-Detained-in-Moscow-During-Pasta-Procession.html

--Guy Macon (talk) 12:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

link overdose

is there any particular reason why this article needs nearly 100 links back to wikipedia? jeebus. Martinchill (talk) 19:32, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Jeebus? You know what happens to those who use Jeebus' name in vain? The almighty Gosh sends them straight to heck where they are danged for eternity...

I cut back the overlinking. You were right. There was far too much of it. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Interesting... Look at the word "overlinking" above and then look at the wikimarkup. It got confused about where the square brackets are. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I believe that the most recent unlinking (there was an earlier round following the opening of this talk thread) goes too far in some places. I'm fine with unlinking things like Associated Press, but in some cases, conceptual terms were unlinked, and that strikes me as throwing out the pasta with the water. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:50, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

I am, of course, fine with you either selectively adding them back or just reverting my edit -- I am a big fan of WP:BRD. IMO, some conceptual terms should not be linked. "Ichthys", "Rastafarian" and "Menorah" are words that the reader may not be familiar with, and thus IMO should be wikilinked. "Spaghetti and meatballs". "Pirates" and "Jesus" IMO should not, because most if not all readers are familiar with those terms. That's just my opinion, though; I have no objection if someone else wants to make different choices as to what to link. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Due to travel and to other Wiki-business, I won't get to it right away, but I'll take you up on that eventually. For now, a quibble: I don't think the threshold is whether readers might be unfamiliar with a term (compare WP:NOTDICT), but rather, whether they might want to read more about it, based on what they read here. --Tryptofish (talk) 14:30, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Good point. I was imagining a reader saying "I don't know what 'Menorah' means so I want a link so I can find out" but clearly that isn't the only reason why someone might want to learn more. So in my examples above, I really don't see any compelling reason to want to learn more about "Spaghetti and meatballs", but the reader might very well want to learn more about "Pirates"; for example, the FSM page has a chart that is clearly a joke, listing 17 pirates in the year 2000, but how many were there? Piracy#Modern age shows hundreds and hundreds of attacks per year. That's interesting an relevant. I am going to go back and selectively re-introduce some links, and of course anyone else improving on my choices is a Good Thing. :) --Guy Macon (talk) 18:22, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Texas Tech student allowed to wear pasta strainer in official photo

Original story:

http://www.kcbd.com/story/23248235/texas-tech-student-allowed-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-official-dps-photo

Other sources:

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/23248235/texas-tech-student-allowed-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-official-dps-photo

http://www.wtoc.com/story/23248235/texas-tech-student-allowed-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-official-dps-photo

http://www.wave3.com/story/23248235/texas-tech-student-allowed-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-official-dps-photo

http://www.wafb.com/story/23248235/texas-tech-student-allowed-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-official-dps-photo

--Guy Macon (talk) 05:02, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

I added this to the article today. Espertus (talk) 16:31, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

At some point, we may have to consider whether the list is getting too long. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:13, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

We might consider keeping the first (Niko Alm) to win the right to wear a colander or similar in an official photo, but then following that paragraph with "Since then other people around the world have also been given similar permission [existing refs]". Likewise, describe the first to be explicitly denied that right, then "... others ... [ref][ref]".

One possibly problem with this is that it may imply that subsequent approvals (or refusals) were following the precedent set by the first, and that is probably not the case. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:29, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

At this point, I'm pretty much just thinking out loud, and it's not like we need to change the page right away. I'm just concerned that, if the present pattern continues, we will come to have a long list that will run afoul of WP:TRIV. Perhaps it will come down to making it one paragraph instead of multiple paragraphs, and saying after some point that we aren't going to add any further examples. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:15, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Missing Español link

Someone please add the Spanish (Español) language (link to https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarismo I guess) I got an error when trying to add it myself. Thank you mateys ! Stephanefr (talk) 18:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

To the best of my limited understanding, that is no longer necessary, because WP:Wikidata takes care of it automatically. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:03, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Is there a way to have wikidata recognize an equivalence (for the purpose of indexing wikipedia articles) between Pastafarianism and the FSM? Part of the difficulty may have something to do with that. For example, the French wikipedia redirects Flying Spaghetti Monster to fr:Pastafarisme, with the Spanish link appearing in the sidebar. Just plain Bill (talk) 17:35, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Pastafarismo is connected to a different item (on enwiki it's Pastafarianism, a redirect). Some language WPs have both Pastafarianism and FSM so, as far as I understand, because wikidata items are language independent (e.g. they try to refer to the subject itself) it's messy to start linking FSM to Pasta. ...But I'm kind of a wikidata noob so started this project chat over at asking about how to handle this. --— Rhododendrites ^talk |  06:24, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

headgear

A Pastafarian politician was sworn into office wearing a colander:

http://www.observertoday.com/page/content.detail/id/592593/-Strainer--things-have-happened.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.66.10 (talk) 03:40, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I added it to the page. (But that section increasingly looks like a list...) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:30, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

See Also

What's the justification for appeal to ridicule in the "see also" section? The FMS is parodic and it's subject to idealogical disagreement, but it's not an inherently flawed argument as a "see also" to a logical fallacy implies. If any logical fallacies/strategies should be linked on this page at all, I would suggest reductio ad absurdum instead. Reyemile (talk) 02:19, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Done. Good catch! --Guy Macon (talk) 06:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I think a case could be made for keeping both links, although I don't feel strongly about it. To some extent, FSM is constructed intentionally as an appeal to ridicule. And even if we don't agree about that, listing a page under "see also" does not mean that the page is about the same thing or same category of thing. It simply means "if you are reading this page you may, perhaps, also be interested in this other page". --Tryptofish (talk) 00:46, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

It is an appeal, and it does involve ridicule, but it has nothing to do with the logical fallacy called Appeal to ridicule. Our article doesn't describe or explain it very well, but http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html does. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:22, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, thanks. As you can see, I'm not much of a philosopher. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:18, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Parody Religion

"it is generally recognized by the media as a parody religion". Is it really relevant What the media 'recognises' something to be? I recognise the catholic religion to be an organisation dedicated to child abuse. Perhaps I should edit catholic wikipedia page to show that. Alans1977 (talk) 01:33, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

What you ask is a perennial question on this talk page, and has been asked and answered numerous times before. You can find those discussions in the talk page archives. (About editing another page to make a point, please see WP:POINT). --Tryptofish (talk) 21:16, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

My point is that perhaps statements from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster should be given far more weight in describing whether or not it is or is not a parody religion and what is "generally recognized by the media" not given so much weight. The way it is worded is presented as fact. Similarly it would be out of place for something to be placed on the catholic church's page that says "it is generally recognized by members of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) to be an organisation dedicated to sexual child abuse".Alans1977 (talk) 09:58, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Why would we give weight to what vested interests say about themselves?--Charles (talk) 10:20, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

In any case, is 'recognized' the right word - maybe 'seen' would be better. Dougweller (talk) 11:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Agree that 'seen' would be much better. Went ahead and made the WP:BOLD edit. Regards. Gaba ^(talk) 11:40, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Good call. --Guy Macon (talk) 13:49, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Aye. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 18:02, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

That works for me too, thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:09, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

*GROUP HUG* :) --Guy Macon (talk) 18:39, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

I feel like I should raise an objection now.... (-: --Tryptofish (talk) 19:09, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Nice when we all agree! Dougweller (talk) 21:52, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps we have all been Touched by His Noodly Appendage? Or not. (smile) --Guy Macon (talk) 00:55, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

If so, I'm glad I'm using an antivirus program. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:52, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2014

there heaven is Olive Garden and there is a breadstick volcano not a beer volcano 68.192.237.172 (talk) 22:59, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

That needs to be reliably sauced. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 23:10, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor ^Sing 08:30, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

"Pastafarian" parenthetical explanation

I find it strange that the explanation about the etymology of "Pastafarian" is included, or at least in the fashion in which it is. Either, it should be under a separate etymology subheading, or it shouldn't be explained at all, just as one wouldn't deem it necessary to explain "The Animatrix," "Jazzercise," "soundscape," or "televangeslism." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.235.185.9 (talk) 08:45, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Actually, it was only moved to the lead section very recently, and I would be open to moving it back lower on the page. But the origin of the term might be a little less obvious than some of those other examples, and it's not unusual for Wikipedia to explain these things at the first occurrence of a word. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:44, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2014

this pic is avaliable:

File:Flying Spaghetti Monster 10.jpg

Flying Spaghetti Monster.

190.69.222.199 (talk) 00:00, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I do not see how it would improve the article.Charles (talk) 09:43, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty much neutral as to whether to use the existing second image in Flying Spaghetti Monster#As a cultural phenomenon, or to replace it with this one. (Gotta say, the orange color of this one reminds me more of mac and cheese, and not in a good way.) --Tryptofish (talk) 19:15, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps we can make a color corrected version with a white background, pasta-colored pasta, meat colored meatballs and white eyes with black pupils? --Guy Macon (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

If you look the moster closely, he seems to stick his tongue and he smile. I like this picture. I don´t kno what is the problem about the colors — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pulpino LXIX (talk • contribs) 06:58, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Not done: Image now deleted from Commons. Stickee (talk) 02:09, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2014

i think that Kim Kardashian was also spread spreading rumors about bad pirates, if you would be so nice to let me in i can fix that for you. CrimsonDynamite (talk) 03:58, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Your sources?Charles (talk) 09:40, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

parody claims from henderson are unverifiable

from the faq: Moreover, founder Bobby Henderson is implied to have said it was in an interview with USA Today. "I don't know if (the FSM parody) makes a difference,"

Henderson does not regard pastafarianism as a parody - and implied/injected thoughts from a random journalist is not verifiable nor NPV. the correct objective quote from usa today is obviously: "I don't know if [the FSM] makes a difference," and does not touch upon parody aspects. it is standard journalism not to change quotes, using such journalism is below wikipedia standards.

A correct [sic] and verifiable quote from henderson regarding parody aspects of pastafarianism: "For the record, I don’t believe Pastafarianism is a parody." http://www.venganza.org/2014/11/pastafarian-inmate-sues-prison/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.71.135.38 (talk) 11:04, 12 November 2014‎ (UTC)

Well, WP:V applies to the page, but not to the FAQ on the talk page. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:31, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2014

At the end of Flying Spaghetti Monster#Headgear in identity photos, add:

In November 2014, former porn star Asia Carrera obtained an identity photo with the traditional Pastafarian headgear from a Department of Motor Vehicles office in Hurricane, Utah. The director of Utah's Driver License Division claims about a dozen Pastafarians have had their state driver's license photos taken with a similar colander or pasta strainer over the years.[2]

2001:5C0:1000:A:0:0:0:4FB (talk) 00:06, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Done Stickee (talk) 02:57, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Nuclear Pasta

From a 21 January 2015 space.com article:

"The crusts of neutron stars — cosmic cousins of black holes — possess a weird form of matter known as 'nuclear pasta.'

Now, scientists have found that nuclear pasta may be even stranger than previously thought, forming defects that bond pieces together into complex, disorderly shapes...

The investigators found that lasagna-sheet-like pieces of nuclear pasta could form long-lived defects shaped like corkscrews that connect these sheets.

'I have been trying for years to imagine neutron stars as geologic worlds with different kinds of nuclear rocks, faults, mountains,' Horowitz said. 'Then, one molecular dynamics simulation found a mistake — a defect in the otherwise regularly perfect pasta shapes that persisted for a very long time.' "

(Pauses for applause) Thank you, folks. You have been a wonderful audience. I will be here all week. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:00, 23 January 2015 (UTC)