Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Sportspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Sportspeople[edit]

Scott Spaven[edit]

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Poorly sourced rugby BLP. The closest to WP:SIGCOV I found was this transactional announcement and a couple sentences here. A potential redirect is List of Hull Kingston Rovers players. JTtheOG (talk) 19:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Sethu Tom[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 18:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:55, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Dobson[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 18:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete There is this and a couple of other bits from his time in England. Personally don't think there is enough for a WP:GNG pass although close, and no suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dean Ebarle[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a Filipino men's footballer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 17:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Anthony Adams (fighter)[edit]

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Does not meet notability for fighters (highest rating is #79 in the world) and all the sources are just reporting on his bouts. HeinzMaster (talk) 13:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Denice Zamboanga[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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An article on this mixed martial artist was deleted three years ago after Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denice Zamboanga as failing to meet either mixed martial arts notability or general notability. At the time, there were also multiple drafts, probably because someone was trying to game the system. The originators were then blocked for sockpuppetry. This article does not differ materially from the deleted article. The subject still is not top-ten-ranked, and so does not meet mixed martial arts notability. The article does not speak for itself and explain how the subject meets general notability. The subject's association with the ONE Championship is now verified, but "so what?", participation in the ONE Championship is not grounds for notability. The article has been reference-bombed, but nothing in the article refers to significant coverage in an article that does not speak for itself. This article differs enough from the deleted article so that speedy deletion is not in order; but it does not differ enough from the deleted article to avoid deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Sources 4, 8, 9, 20 and 24 are all RS that talks about her, the article seems to meet notability. Oaktree b (talk) 11:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comments She has never met WP:NMMA. The first source mentioned above is an article about her brother, she is mentioned in passing because she was on the same fight card. The next three are pre-fight articles about her first match in the promotion's Grand Prix tournament (which would be typical coverage for any fighter). The final reference is a report on that fight, which she lost. Even if you believe that coverage is significant, it is all about one event. Didn't check other references, so I'm not voting yet. Papaursa (talk) 13:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dmitri Kurakin[edit]

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level or bronze/silver medals at the senior-level national championships do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. PROD removed without explanation. Not to be confused with Dmitry Kurakin, sociology professor at Yale University. Bgsu98 (Talk) 00:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Patrick Grogg[edit]

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this footballer. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 21:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sizo Maseko[edit]

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Poorly sourced BLP that fails WP:GNG. The closest to WP:SIGCOV I found was this. JTtheOG (talk) 20:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A few team announcements which directly name him, but not really enough to suggest a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:52, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tiaan Marx[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:58, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Baris Tasci[edit]

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this footballer. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 19:33, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:55, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Syron Saut[edit]

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this footballer. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 19:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:55, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Viktor Vondryska[edit]

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Slovak footballer with 21 minutes in the highest Slovak league. There is no longer a free pass for every player who has featured in less than one match. My search for sources found nothing except for passing mentions and primary sources. Geschichte (talk) 11:16, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 19:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marek Výbošťok[edit]

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Slovak footballer with 33 minutes in the highest Slovak league. There is no longer a free pass for every player who has featured in less than one match. My search for sources found nothing except for passing mentions, match reports and primary sources, including his own agency. Geschichte (talk) 11:19, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nomination. I couldn't find anything to keep the page either. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 19:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Martin Vlček[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Slovak footballer with 0 minutes (i.e. one substitution in extra time) in the highest Slovak league. Previously kept for meeting a guideline that doesn't exist anymore. There is no longer a free pass for every player who has featured in less than one match. My search for sources found nothing except for passing mentions. Career is no longer ongoing either. There are some unrelated people by the same name. Geschichte (talk) 11:22, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 19:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete – With only primary sources listed, this article is absolutely unacceptable! ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 09:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:55, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jacquin Jansen[edit]

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South African rugby BLP. I found a handful of sentences of coverage here, which I don't see as enough to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 07:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kenry Balobo[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a Filipino men's footballer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 07:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Giganto[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a Filipino men's footballer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found was this short piece. JTtheOG (talk) 04:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 19:03, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Phillip Buffington[edit]

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Played one season in the American third division and otherwise played in amateur leagues. Now coaches at a private high school in Jackson, Mississippi. Several searches brought up a single local mention for the amateur Mississippi Brilla and several local pieces on the success of the team he coaches. He exists and is clearly a decent coach of high schoolers, but this falls well short of WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann (talk) 00:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: this is a more substantial article than that on college basketball player Blessing Ejiofor, which seems to stand a decent chance of surviving AfD despite a lack of similar information about tournaments and awards, based solely on the existence of interviews and mentions in notable sources. So I expected that there would be at least local news coverage (i.e. independent of school newspapers and athletic sites) of Buffington.

He was not mentioned, as far as I can tell, in the Herald-Dispatch, although it's possible that the online search did not reach back as far as 2005 (it's also possible that the paper's coverage of Marshall soccer was not very extensive back them; it's much more extensive now that Marshall's program has achieved national prominence). I tried to search the Clarion-Ledger for mentions during Buffington's Mississippi College years, but was unable to get the site to finish loading on my ancient computer. A Google News search mainly turned up articles in "Mississippi Scoreboard" about the girls' soccer team that Buffington coaches. There may still be news coverage that I wasn't able to find, but I have my doubts at the moment. P Aculeius (talk) 11:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Found some passing mentions in match reports but not much else here. This subject lacks the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 17:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: for a sports bio we need "at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject" beyond stats, and I can't find one that's not WP:ROUTINE match coverage. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beatrix Holéczy[edit]

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Biathlete who placed lowly in two Olympic Games. No World Cup results of note either; 49th and 68th places tend not to get coverage. I did not find any coverage when searchnig either, apart from passing mentions (and I did search in the Hungarian name order. Therefore fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 21:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Paywalled newspaper archive Arcanum brings up ~300 matches for this person's name. @Nenea hartia: Can you verify if any of the coverage is significant? Thanks, BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11: As you already mentioned, there are many references to her, most of them about the competitions she participated in. However, I also found some slightly more detailed articles, one of them in the "Yearbook of the Hungarian Olympic Academy 2016". Please see here. --Nenea hartia (talk) 19:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chad Crandell[edit]

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He played only at amateur level and several searches brought up very, very little of anything, much less WP:SIGCOV. So fails WP:GNG. Anwegmann (talk) 23:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:52, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mahonri Ngakuru[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a New Zealand rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found was this transactional announcement. Unless WP:SIGCOV is found, I suggest draftification. JTtheOG (talk) 23:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep Lots of coverage here, although it's very close as to whether it passes WP:GNG or not. Given his career is just starting and he will likely generate further coverage in the future I'd suggest weak keep. Personally wouldn't dratify as I imagine it will just get forgotten about here. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jade Stighling[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found was this transactional announcement. JTtheOG (talk) 23:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete There is lots of coverage, of which there is quite a few bits where he is the named or main topic, but I'm not sure if there's enough for a WP:GNG. I'll go weak delete for now, but happy to change if someone else finds something. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of A.D. Isidro Metapan players[edit]

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WP:LISTN is not met here due to a lack of coverage of the subjects as a group. As it stands, this is an indiscriminate list of mostly non-notable people. Let'srun (talk) 03:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 14:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It desperately needs an update, but this is another misuse of the term "indiscriminate" in a list deletion discussion - there is crystal clear inclusion criteria. SportingFlyer T·C 02:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep—Likewise falls under WP:NLIST, by my reading. It's not the individuals who are notable. It's the "group or set" at is notable as such. Anwegmann (talk) 04:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yet this list only includes a self-selected number of players, many of whom have no article themselves, and has no sources discussing these players as a group. In my opinion, it is much more appropriate to have a category for the notable players who played here. Let'srun (talk) 17:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which is fixable through editing, and nowhere in NLIST does it require sources to discuss the list as a group, since there are several valid reasons for creating lists. SportingFlyer T·C 18:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – a category for the players from this club is enough. Svartner (talk) 19:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Dunn (defender)[edit]

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I'm a bit unsure about this one, as he seemed to have a rather robust career, but it was entirely at the non-league, semi-pro level. There doesn't seem to be much of any WP:SIGCOV outside of this local newspaper coverage. I'd like to see what consensus is here, as it feels like a "delete" for me, but I'm curious what others think. Anwegmann (talk) 17:37, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nomination. Football figures whose playing and manager career is mostly confined to small clubs do not have exact material to support WP:GNG. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 09:25, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to List of Scarborough F.C. players where he should be added. Giant Snowman 14:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I don't know, I don't think redirecting to the players article helps, seems to be an important figure for the club in the 1970s and 1980s, first as a player then as a manager. I'd prefer to keep, however if not, suggest a redirect to the club page Scarborough F.C. His name is mentioned four times on the page, twice as player of the year and twice as manager. As the content on the article is sourced, it maybe a good idea to merge some of the content. Deletion doesn't help anyone. Govvy (talk) 10:42, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think a keep is a bit much for this player, but I'd be totally amenable to a merge or redirect, for sure. Anwegmann (talk) 01:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Morgan Williams (footballer, born 2004)[edit]

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Fails WP:SIGCOV, as everything I could find is either South London local press or directly from club websites. Anwegmann (talk) 17:47, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - 5 appearances as a professional with ongoing career, there is coverage out there such as this and this, does not need deleting. Giant Snowman 14:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps drafitification? Anwegmann (talk) 20:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At the absolute most. Giant Snowman 20:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep per whats on the article, sources above. Cheers. Govvy (talk) 10:47, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Per @GiantSnowman. Svartner (talk) 19:07, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails GNG. I couldn't find any sigcov of him. The above sources are a routine match report and a routine transfer story. The "ongoing career" argument should officially go the way of NFOOTBALL. Articles are for things that pass GNG now not at some time possibly in the future. Dougal18 (talk) 13:23, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lorenzo D'Agostini[edit]

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This feels like a prime example of WP:TOOSOON, so I would suggest draftification. There was some coverage of him in Italian press upon his move to Lazio's youth system in 2023, but nothing but match reports appear since then. Anwegmann (talk) 17:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 14:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep has already played pro matches and has significant coverage.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Thompson (figure skater)[edit]

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Non-notable figure skater despite one national championship win (for Great Britain). Nothing since retirement. Google search yields nothing but wikis, scoring databases, and one article mentioning that the European Championships where he finished in 25th place were held at the same rink where he trained. Big whoop. Bgsu98 (Talk) 12:00, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge or redirect I deprodded this with the rationale "This should be merged or redirected, but there are several plausible targets and I don't know enough about the topic area to unilaterally decide which is best." and I stand by that comment. I oppose straight deletion. Thryduulf (talk) 12:01, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tomáš Ďurica[edit]

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This is another long-unsourced article of a Slovak men's footballer named Tomáš, whose career is mostly confined to clubs from lower league football clubs as well, before disappearing in 2011. I have searched on Google using a few keywords (e.g. "Tomáš Ďurica futbolista" and "Tomáš Ďurica Žilina"), but couldn't find any in-depth coverage of him that would meet WP:GNG. Best secondary sources I found were interviews from 2003, 2022, and 2023 – the latter two of which are paywalled. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 11:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. "mostly confined to clubs from lower league football" refers to the swansong of his career. The main part of his career took place until 2004 and included a spell in Russia. Seems notable, but it's not that easy finding good stuff. I found some of the same sources you did: [1] [2] [3] [4] A search in Russian would be for Томаш Дюрица. Geschichte (talk) 16:34, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 14:12, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per sources above.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:36, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Per @Geschichte. Svartner (talk) 19:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jiří Vondráček (footballer)[edit]

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Does not meet WP:GNG criteria. He played only one game in professional competition. FromCzech (talk) 05:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Agree with nominator. When I created this in 2011 there was a good chance notability would trend upwards. Now it is clear there is insufficient notability for a Wikipedia article. C 679 06:02, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 08:39, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A good catch. A non-career within football, not enough significant coverage. Geschichte (talk) 14:29, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:37, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—per above. Anwegmann (talk) 17:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete agree per nom. Govvy (talk) 21:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amanda Nylander[edit]

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Non-notable figure skater who fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level does not meet the standards of WP:NSKATE. Google search turns up nothing outside of wikis and scoring databases. PROD removed without explanation. Bgsu98 (Talk) 23:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page:

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Keep: Both subjects seem to meet the GNG with the Skate Today article already in the article, which provides WP:SIGCOV, along with native language sources such as [[5]]. Let'srun (talk) 14:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. In addition to what Let'srun has pointed out above, I've expanded the article a little bit, building on Swedish news sources. /Julle (talk) 19:30, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Julles additions AlexandraAVX (talk) 05:48, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Julle (talk)'s expansion and additions of news sources. Meets WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. -AuthorAuthor (talk) 17:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per Julle (talk)'s expansion and good work to update the article. Also per WP:GNG.BabbaQ (talk) 19:05, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Guan Xueting[edit]

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Non-notable figure skater who fails WP:NSKATE; bronze/silver medal placements at the national championship level do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. Google search turns up nothing outside of wikis and scoring databases. Bgsu98 (Talk) 22:32, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Much more results if one searches for the name with hanzi, rather than with pinyin. I've added a couple of sources. /Julle (talk) 00:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: per Julle, but aside from the sources about her abduction that Julle added to the article (which I am worried that some may consider them as run-out-of-mill or 1E), I have further added three sources from Sohu and China Daily which detailed her figure skating and post-retirement coaching career. Fulfils GNG. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 15:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Devora Radeva[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level does not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. Google search turns up nothing outside of wikis and scoring databases. Previous AFD received zero arguments in favor of keeping this article that cited any evidence of notability. Bgsu98 (Talk) 15:35, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Patrick Schulz[edit]

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Non-notable wrestler with no sources in the article Niafied (talk) 07:29, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 May 31. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:06, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Manoj Bhagawati[edit]

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No more information available on this topic, The article did not edit from much time. And no importance of this article.... Many regions to delete it. Manoj Bhagawati is/was not famous cricketer. Paigaonwasii. — Preceding undated comment added 08:43, 30 May 2024‎ (UTC)[reply]

Note: I have added this nomination to today's daily AfD log; it had not previously been listed in one. (Usually a bot fixes this; not sure why that hasn't happened here.) No opinion or comment at this time. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:47, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to List of Assam cricketers Likely fails WP:GNG, however suitable redirect exits per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 23:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stefan Stojanović (footballer, born 2001)[edit]

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fails general notablility guideline and notability guidelines for sportspeople. ltb d l (talk) 06:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. 18 apps for Rad in Serbia Superliga should be enough, so I suspect stuff is out there. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jo Sol-song[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 02:05, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 10:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—Clearly fails WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV without enough international experience to supplant that fact. Anwegmann (talk) 22:10, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jo Kwang[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 02:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong Delete – With only database source listed, this article is absolutely unacceptable! ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—Clearly fails without enough international experience to make up for it. Anwegmann (talk) 22:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jo Jong-chul[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 02:00, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 10:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—Nothing here. Clearly fails WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann (talk) 22:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Henri Boshoff[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect (no list for Zimbabwean internationals currently exits) per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hein Potgieter[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:27, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Could only really find this. More needed for a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:03, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Beerwinkel[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found three sentences of coverage here. JTtheOG (talk) 19:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Lots of team announcements etc, but struggling to see anything else to suggest a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:02, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: He helped people or did something which leads to an award isn't notability. Though there are WP:LOTSOFSOURCES, they don't independently and significantly cover him. However, there is still clue for notability maybe in the future. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 11:16, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdoulaye Boureima Katkoré[edit]

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Does not meet WP:GNG, essentially no coverage in secondary sources. The cited secondary coverage in the article is primarily about an incident where Katkore was treated by a field medic during an international friendly match ([6]), and goes further to establish the notability of the medic than of Katkore. I was unable to find any additional coverage searching for variations of his French name as well as his Arabic name (بوريما كاتاكوري ), as well as the alt-spelling "Katakore" (which turns up some additional mere mentions in rosters, but nothing GNG-worthy). Somewhat confusingly, Arabic sources (including the prior Al-Jazeera link) appear to prefer referring to the subject as Katkore-Boureima, rather than Boureima-Katkore, and often omit his first name; searching for these permutations in Arabic and French did not turn up any significant coverage, however. There also appears to be an unrelated Algerian player named Boureima Katkore ([7]) _signed,Rosguill ^talk 13:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong keep—Obviously a fixture on the Niger national football team with 48 caps over the course of a decade. This should easily stand in for a lack of WP:SIGCOV, especially given that he is from an area that is well within the limits of WP:BIAS and plays in a league that does not garner much genuine media coverage. There must be some reasonable measure of significance based on senior international appearances, regardless of nation or league, and 48 caps for a national team that does not play a heavy yearly schedule should easily fall within that measure. This player is clearly very important to Nigerien football and the country's national team. Anwegmann (talk) 22:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It appears as though he actually has 59 caps for Niger, making him the third most-capped player in Niger national football team history. And according to this article, he is also the captain of the Niger national team. Anwegmann (talk) 22:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep per Anwegmann, there are clearly sources out there and he has a significant claim to notability. Giant Snowman 16:32, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He actually has 55 caps [8], the problem with Africa, it really doesn't have the same media coverage like America and Europe. So that can be a problem, but with the amount of top football he has played. There must be more on him, that what is online. I am going to have to put my faith for WP:OFFLINESOURCES here. Hoping there is more. Govvy (talk) 21:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The player spent time in Lebanon. I'm therefore pinging @Nehme1499, not to sway the !vote, but to attempt to find constructive sources. Geschichte (talk) 07:11, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The sources in the article is good enough to establish notability. Aside that, WP:ANYBIO is sufficient for a entry. Per such an article, more sources exists. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 11:01, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bartosz Brzęk[edit]

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Does not meet WP:GNG--other than publications affiliated with his team, Lechia Gdansk, there doesn't appear to be any significant coverage of Brzęk available, with several pages of Polish search results containing only very brief mentions in match reports. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 13:19, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify—Appears to be a clear example of WP:TOOSOON. He's a young player who has made a handful of meaningful but inconsistent appearances for a senior professional team (that is now in the Polish first division again). He definitely only starting out. Anwegmann (talk) 22:33, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 16:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allecks Godinho[edit]

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Footballer with very limited career. First he played 7 minutes for Trnava, the next year he played 8 minutes. Sources I could find was a short transfer announcement that was duplicated in three outlets, as well as a Q-A interview. Therefore fails WP:GNG. Geschichte (talk) 07:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, fails WP:BIO. The transfer announcement is basically a press release, the Q&A interview is a primary source and not independent. Pilaz (talk) 07:56, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—Played seven matches over three years and then disappeared. CLearly fails WP:GNG. Anwegmann (talk) 22:35, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Databases aren't sources but reserved for MOS:EL. The article doesn't meet WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 11:20, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jana Mlakar[edit]

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With only database source listed, the article of this WP:BLP1E#one-time Olympics participant clearly fails WP:GNG. According to Sports Reference results, Mlakar was not in the top three winners of 1984 Winter Olympics. She also never received any medal record. Corresponding article on Slovene Wikipedia is likewise an unsourced stub. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 10:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Yugoslavia at the Olympics per no medal, no GNG coverage, WP:NOLYMPICS BrigadierG (talk) 11:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. There are Mlakar Slovenian news hits for Jana Mlakar. The news pieces are about a museum director/cultural heritage worker. Judging from pictures she doesn't resemble Jana Mlakar Adamič, a seemingly notable ethnologist (and museum employee) who was born in 1962 as well, but on 12 January [9] [10]. I would hope that someone can shed light on who these people are, and whether there is a relation to the skier. Geschichte (talk) 12:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. She seems to be notable (given the presentation in the podcast mentioned below) but in-depth sources are missing at the moment. The German Wikipedia contains some more information in de:Jana Mlakar and there may be offline newspaper articles that reported on her in more detail. The museum director/cultural heritage worker was born in 1955 (per Cobiss) and Jana Adamič Mlakar seems to be a completely unrelated person as she is from a different region. --TadejM ^{my talk} 02:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently she was the 'best cross-country skier' in Sarajevo? Hungarian newspaper archive Arcanum brings up a dozen-or-so matches, mainly in the Serbian newspaper Magyar Szó. There's mention of her in this tabloid-y article about the "divorces of the best Slovenian athletes". BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:19, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep If what the user above says turns out to be accurate, then this article deserves a place here. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 15:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per above, in my honest opinion GNG should be covered with these sources. Will also take a look at some sl/sh sources. A09|(talk) 15:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Georgie Campbell[edit]

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Fails WP:EVENTCRIT; subject is notable only for passing away. As this is a recent death, WP:BLP1E should probably apply here. See also WP:PSEUDO. Firestar464 (talk) 00:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Looks like a WP:BLP1E with little chance of WP:LASTING BrigadierG (talk) 00:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - I think that as a top level 5* rider and on Team GB for FEI Nations Cup on multiple occasions she was already WP:NSPORT relevant, and lack of previous article probably more reflective of the overall poor coverage of equestrian sport on WP. Suggest that there should be enough for an article. OwainDavies ^(about)_(talk) edited at 09:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are achievement standards set out for equestrian sports at WP:NEQUESTRIAN - generally, a medal is required to be notable, not just participation. BrigadierG (talk) 11:05, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from this AfD, they were only ever guidelines but it was my understanding that WP:NSPORT, within which WP:NEQUESTRIAN falls, had been abandoned in favour of general WP:GNG notability, in-part so as to avoid the proliferation of single sourced historic competitors in favour of properly sourced, judged-on-their-own-merits, robust articles. A process which has clear merits, and without inbuilt asymmetry of certain sports having literally thousands of active competitors with WP:BLP articles and other sports granted three medalists at a time. If you permit a further example of the difficulties of the guidelines and how they could be perceived as a barrier to the collation of information; WP:RU/N had the criteria of only the semifinalists from the Women's World Cup, a tournament which takes place once every four years. However, in the pandemic the tournament was postponed for 18 months so a strict interpretation of the guidelines (which I saw being argued) would have no new 15-a-side female rugby union players permissible for over five and a half years. A hindrance to WP as an up-to-date information source, which an online encyclopaedia should have the capacity to excel at. Hildreth gazzard (talk) 13:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete If this person is only notable for passing then they fail the notability test, unless proven otherwise. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 15:07, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I noticed the article about her husband, and put up an AfD for that as well. Posting here as this would've been bundled had I noticed them at the same time. Firestar464 (talk) 00:33, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That AfD nomination was a dumb move as her husband is clearly notable, and bundling the two bios would have thus been a very bad move indeed. Schwede 66 03:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Article satisfies WP:GNG. Not uncommon to gain information from obituaries. Hildreth Gazzard (talk) 13:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I started this article on a distinguished equestrian. Strange to see that the article on her husband was also AfD. This page has been expanded on since I started it. Moondragon21 (talk) 14:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hayden Evans[edit]

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This article seems to fail WP:SPORTBASIC as well as WP:SIGCOV—he is a college soccer player who signed but never played in the league for a fourth-tier English team for one year. All coverage is local and/or match reports. Anwegmann (talk) 03:02, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vian van der Watt[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 03:11, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A few bits in profiles of his previous U20 appearances, but probably not enough to pass WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pieter Stemmet[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 03:07, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Pérez (footballer)[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Sources are predominantly interviews of the player or routine transfer news, and aren't suggestive of notability for this footballer. As far as I can ascertain, he has never played professionally – neither in Sweden nor in Italy (including Atalanta's under-23 team). I'm not opposed to draftification if there's potential for the subject to be notable in the near future. (I should also note that the previous AfD was about a different person, so is impertinent to this discussion.) ^Complex/_Rational 20:06, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 01:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – WP:TOOSOON. I see no significance for this player at this time. Delete or Draftify.BabbaQ (talk) 05:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 18:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify—Clearly WP:TOOSOON. Anwegmann (talk) 22:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Logan Basson[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 20:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD, although if a section was added to his brother Bjorn Basson then could perhaps be redirected there. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Qëndrim Ismajli[edit]

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Seems like a case of WP:TOOSOON as I am struggling to find WP:SIGCOV on this Football Superleague of Kosovo player. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 17:39, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete - subject may be renowned in his home country but the references do not establish this notability. I also performed a search on my own but couldn't find enough evidence or trace of notability. Mevoelo (talk)
Weak keep—The player has had a pretty consistent career lately with a first division team. I think this makes up for a lack of sustained coverage, considering the place in which the player plays. I could, however, just as easily swing the other way. Anwegmann (talk) 22:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Note that participation-based athlete criteria were deprecated in 2022. BLPs require strong sourcing. JTtheOG (talk) 21:53, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. If it's "too soon" we better do this instead of pure deletion. We can redirect it to SC Gjilani or SC Gjilani#Players, I suppose. Better Nuncio (talk) 10:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tahani Al-Yanbaawi[edit]

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WP:TOOSOON for this footballer article probably. All I found was this transactional announcement and a few sentences here. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 17:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 19:51, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks like WP:GNG as the editor above suggested. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 15:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—per above and per nom. Anwegmann (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of career achievements by Hakeem Olajuwon[edit]

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WP:NOTSTATS, WP:INDISCRIMINATE - there is already significant consensus that these big lists of stats are not encyclopedic - several other discussions of this type are listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Shaquille O'Neal BrigadierG (talk) 14:42, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Unneeded WP:CONTENTFORK packed with WP:UNDUE, indiscriminate, trivial stats minutiae. Major, defining achievements should be captured in the main bio. The basic stats are already at Hakeem Olajuwon § Career statistics. Also fails WP:NOTSTATS: Statistics that lack context or explanation can reduce readability and may be confusing As most of this page is unsourced, there's no opportunity to merge either.—Bagumba (talk) 08:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with Bagumba. The important accomplishments should already be in the main Hakeem Olajuwon article. This article has too many overly-specific statistics that won't realistically be maintained over time. I quickly found one stat that is out of date (Olajuwon currently ranks 7th in career defensive rebounds, not third: [11]). I'm sure there are more problems like that, but I don't think it's worth anyone's time to try to fix that stuff. Other websites can handle this stuff more effectively. Zagalejo (talk) 00:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tommy Sharp[edit]

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I moved this page to draftspace with the reason "No evidence of notability in sources in article, are there better sources (independent sources which discuss him in depth?)". It was moved back to mainspace with the addition of a primary source from his team Livingston, but there still seem to be no good reliable independent sources with significant attention for this player[12], just passing mentions in match reports. Fram (talk) 09:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 13:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draft per Svartner, per nom, if it is messed with, you can easily move lock and salt the article until he has played more. In a better state, etc. Govvy (talk) 19:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify—Clearly WP:TOOSOON. Anwegmann (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The notability is zero, and the sources are all passing mentions or primary, making them not-really-worthy to retain in draft space. Start the article if and when actual sigcov exists. Geschichte (talk) 21:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Florencio Badelic Jr.[edit]

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I'll admit that I'm a bit unsure about this article. There are a lot of citations in the article, but all of them are routine and/or match reports. There seems to be little or no WP:SIGCOV here. Anwegmann (talk) 00:15, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Decent coverage in local media, even though it is from a not very popular football center, the article seems sufficiently based. Svartner (talk) 19:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree. There seems to be a lot of match reports in the mix, though, and little of substance. That said, I'm still unsure about the article as a whole. Thanks for the vote. Anwegmann (talk) 22:07, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yaroslav Kysil[edit]

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The only reference I can find on him is, unfortunately, related to the death of his father in the Russo-Ukrainian War. On his own, nothing but match reports and routine coverage—far short of WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann (talk) 00:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 19:55, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment He got a transfer to FC Mynai and has made 11 more appearances in the Ukrainian Premier League, which makes his career somewhat less pathetic, but my limited ability with searching his name in Ukrainian brings up nothing but this transfer in February, so I soft lean Delete. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Monirul Molla[edit]

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I can't find anything beyond match and roster reports—some three years old—that briefly mention him. This may be a WP:TOOSOON situation, but realistically, I think it just fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:GNG. Anwegmann (talk) 00:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Per nom. Poor and unreliable sources failing WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. The player also does not meet the basic criteria of notability. RangersRus (talk) 13:02, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 19:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails GNG and I can't find any good sources online. – dudhhr^talk_contribs^she_her 16:02, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Francois Esterhuyzen[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found was this routine news piece and a few interviews in Russian-language media (1, 2, 3). JTtheOG (talk) 20:44, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep I think there's enough in the Russian coverage to suggest a weak keep for WP:GNG. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Inus Kritzinger[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. There are a few sentences of coverage here. JTtheOG (talk) 19:53, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Martin Bezuidenhout[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Most of the coverage just tends to be squad and team announcements. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pieter Louw[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:37, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A few match reports, but coverage does seem to be limited to them. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:55, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Loïc Jean-Albert[edit]

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Declined prod. With only 2 google news hits, the first one not being in-depth, not enough coverage to meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 16:26, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Heinrich Steyl[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 17:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:23, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Srđan Škulić[edit]

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Fails WP:NBIO; created by a fairly new editor who doesn't understand much English (they made test edits at KDCD-TV). Mvcg66b3r (talk) 16:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:49, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Azim Badakhshi[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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The first nomination was withdrawn and not properly discussed. I am not convinced the subject meets the criteria for "Sport personality" according to WP:SPORTSPERSON which states that "A sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has won a significant honor." which he didn't. "Meeting this requirement alone does not indicate notability", the subject still needs to pass GNG guidelines. I would like to discuss it further as the subject is not even close to meeting WP:NMMA criteria. Having fought in ACB, AFC, Brave FC, is not enough and the subject has never been ranked in the world top 10 as per WP:NMMA. Lekkha Moun (talk) 18:13, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I withdrawn my request cuz as a Persian language user I find and confirm the authenticity of the sources which meet WP:SPORTSPERSON clearly:
- BBC (1) (2)
- The Independent (3)
- Hindustan Times (4) (5) (6)
- Afghanistan International (7) (8) (9) (10) (11)
- ESPN (12) (13)
- UFC (14)
- The Print (15) (16)
- Radio Azadi (17) (18) (19) (20) (21)

Claggy (talk) 19:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Greetings, Your concern is understandable. But He clearly meet WP:SPORTSPERSON and Wp:Bio , Despite of being a athlete, He has become a national symbol in Afghanistan, with support from the Millions of Afghans including former President, ministers, and other officials who recognize his achievements. His journey is completely motivator for new generation in Afghanistan and India. Besides his sports career, he is a successful motivator, investor, and human rights activist, I hope this satisfies your concerns.Parwiz ahmadi (talk) 22:07, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep: I removed some of WP:NONRS references, He clearly meet WP:SPORTSPERSON. Youknowwhoistheman (talk) 16:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete First of all, I would like to ask Parwiz ahmadi What is your connection with the said article subject? You seem to have so much interest in him and you have been pleading with editors to help you save the article. You were pleading with Liz for her cooperation and telling her to close the AFD discussion immediately which the reference can be found here. You were also pleading with a user named Untamed1910 in assisting you to also help you save the article which the references can be found here. There is no Wikipedia article you have ever submitted for WP:AFCREVIEW that has been accepted. All were decline. 99% of the ones you have created and move to main space are already deleted except Din Mohammad Jurat which still doesn't also seem to meet WP:GNG. The only news was that he was fired. How does that now makes him suitable for wikipedia without meeting WP:GNG. From what I have reviewed so far I definitely support Lekkha Moun. The article should be deleted because I don't see how it meets WP:GNG either. This is a English Wikipedia, so I don't see how the sources above help.--Gabriel (talk to me ) 18:34, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Sir@Gabriel601

I must say that yes, I requested Ms. @User:Liz to close the AFD according to Wikipedia's policies since seven days have passed since the AFD started. As the Wikipedia rules state, the AFD should be closed if possible. However, I did not use the word "immediately." It would be better if you speak the truth.

Secondly, my entire interest in preserving this article is due to the several days of effort I have put into it, and I am fully aware and confident that this article meets WP:SPORTSPERSON criteria. He is one of the most famous athletes in Afghanistan and is considered a national figure in Afghanistan. Parwiz ahmadi (talk) 18:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You told Liz to Please keep this article and close the nomination which sounds like an immediate task. Secondly effort you put about writing articles you never submitted for review doesn't matter here especially when it has now been nominated for AFD. It is a process that has to be passed since you fail to follow the right way as a newbie. Gabriel (talk to me ) 19:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @Gabriel601 ,This matter does not concern you regarding what I have written on Ms. Liz's talk page.

Please write your own personal opinion and that’s it. you are not Ms. Liz's representative or Advisor,

In my opinion, your manner of speaking is inappropriate and offensive. I request the respected admin to take this point into consideration.

Your reaction is very unusual and aggressive. Parwiz ahmadi (talk) 20:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just remembered also you don't have the right to tell an admin the final decision to take on an AFD discussion. He or she can still relist the AFD if the consensus debate is still not clear. My statement might be aggressive to you but they mean no harm than to coach you. Stop moving article directly to main space without submitting them for review to avoid AFD next time. A question was asked by @Bbb23 on your user talk page but you never responded. @Whpq has also warned you regarding your edits. So nothing seems to be new. Gabriel (talk to me ) 20:23, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have the right to ask Liz to undelete your drafts? Here is an example of what you wrote:

Undeletion Draft Requests Hello Liz, I hope you are doing great. I visited your talk page because you deleted the draft articles Draft

Mayweather, Draft

(restaurant), Draft

Darlington, Draft

Maksumov, Draft

So, do you have the right to request Liz to undelete seven or eight of your articles? Parwiz ahmadi (talk) 20:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have the right to request because they were draft that was untouched after six months and deleted by Liz as per deletion of old drafts. You seem to be a stubborn newbie. Who know if that was why @Bbb23 was requesting for your previous account username. Your edit needs to be checked. If you can be moving articles to main space without review and non of your article submitted has been approved ( All declined ) on this current account. Then how would your old account then look like. I am done communicating with you. I leave the rest to other of the editors on wikipedia to check your works. Gabriel (talk to me ) 21:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gabriel601 This is a English Wikipedia, so I don't see how the sources above help. Non-english sources are perfectly acceptable if they are WP:RS. See WP:RSUEC. And user conduct issues should be taken elsewhere. It doesn't particularly help or concern the afd. — hako9 (talk) 23:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:Since I have come up as a subject in this AFD discussion, I feel "involved" and will leave the closure to another administrator. Secondly, I don't remember seeing any User talk page messages but I have been very remiss/behind on replying to talk page messages as I'm caring for a bedbound relative and find responding to talk page messages more taxing than other kinds of editing/admin work. So, I don't believe I've been influenced but will decline to close to avoid any appearance of impropriety. Finally, unless there was problematic content (copyright violations, BLP violations, etc.) I will restore a deleted article to Draft space as long as the editor knows they have to submit the draft for review to AFC so that request is not that unusual. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like a great decision. Wishing you a greater strength as you undergo your caring for a bedbound relative. Gabriel (talk to me ) 22:08, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, _signed,Rosguill ^talk 16:36, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Akiko Kitamura[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level does not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. Google search turns up nothing outside of wikis and scoring databases. Previous AFD received zero arguments in favor of keeping this article that cited any evidence of notability. Bgsu98 (Talk) 16:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:59, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jéan Rossouw[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 20:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep Couple of bits here, here and here which I think make it worth a weak keep. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:59, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete on account of the serious dearth of sources denoting notability. The ones provided above by RugbyFan22 are two routine listings of players, plus one nostalgia-cum-trivia article titled "Where Are They Now". We cannot construct notability on such thin ground. Otherwise, Wikipedia would be a collection of random information. -The Gnome (talk) 17:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:42, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cecil Dumond[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 17:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A few team announcement bits, but not enough for a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:05, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 18:49, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Duwayne Smart[edit]

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 17:15, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Josh Katzen[edit]

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. Contested PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 17:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Wun-Chang Shih[edit]

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Fails WP:NSKATE; bronze/silver medals at the national championships do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. No international medal placements at all. Google search turns up nothing outside of wikis and scoring databases. PROD removed without explanation. Bgsu98 (Talk) 11:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Plenty of Chinese sources with SIGCOV (eg, Liberty Times[13], [14], Central News Agency [15], My Formosa [zh][16]). His coaching career has also received media coverage (eg, TVBS News[17], Mirror Media[18], Central News Agency[19], [20]) —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 09:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, per Prince of Erebor. /Julle (talk) 00:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Plenty of sources for SIGCOV.WP:GNG applies.BabbaQ (talk) 18:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Valmir Nafiu[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Does not appear to pass WP:GNG or any of the WP:SPORTS criteria. None of the other language wikis have sources that are either a)independent or b) provide significant coverage of the subject. Doing WP:BEFORE reveals only a few pieces of routine coverage. Out of the sources here: [1] and [2] go in depth, and seem to be independent. No clue about reliability.

[5],[6],[7],[9] aren't independent, due to being published by his former club.

[8] does not mention him.

[3]&[4] are just routine coverage mentioning that he played in a certain match.

[10] is a data base entry, which isn't in-depth.

This leaves us with two sources, both of which were published the last time this article was deleted.

(Disclaimer: found this page through a CCI, and I've deleted a paragraph over copyright concerns. The only source I deleted, however, also did not mention the subject.) GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 08:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. None of the sources in the article are independent, as the first two are by the governing sports org. Still fails GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 01:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Yes the article has weak sources which are pretty much primary sources, but that doesn't negate the article, it needs a clean up. Besides you have other sources at de:Valmir Nafiu, [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], lots more with stuff on him, poor nomination, WP:BEFORE clearly not done correctly in my opinion.. Govvy (talk) 08:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The German wiki has 9 sources, 7 of which are not independent. Of the other 2, one is stats and the other contains little info on him. Your sources are interviews, non independent websites and match reports which isn't sigcov. Dougal18 (talk) 09:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...Did you actually read those sources? They clearly do not amount to GNG coverage. 1: interview by his football club N. 2: interview in Telegrafi with 1 independent sentence on him N. 3: his football club N. 4: part of 1 sentence in a routine transaction announcement N. 5: part of 1 sentence in a routine match recap N. 6: 1 sentence in a routine match recap N. If you're going to accuse others of being lazy with their BEFOREs maybe don't use such obviously garbage sources as examples of what they missed. JoelleJay (talk) 17:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 19:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and SALT - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per sources below which show notability. Giant Snowman 07:36, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - @GiantSnowman:, I think important context is needed here... The sources do have secondary coevrage and even then if you look at Macedonian media it tends to cover players in the form of seemingly "routine" media (see [27], [28], and [29], as opposed to e.g. Indonesian media which tends to write about players in more long-form profiles). He has been covered by various Macedonian news outlets. As a result, I feel that the fact that he has received lots of coverage by many Macedonian outlets in the form of shorter seemingly "routine" articles ([30], [31], [32] etc, has Wikipedia pages in eight languages and has played in German Bundesliga, made 100+ appearances and helped Macedonian team win three keague titles and has ongoing career is enough all put together. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:34, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are "seemingly routine" because they are routine... those are all routine transaction announcements and match reports, which we see loads of for every footballer. Which source specifically meets SPORTCRIT's requirement for IRS SIGCOV? JoelleJay (talk) 11:39, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, leaving aside the first three links, because they're not about this footballer, [10], as JoelleJay caught, is a site run by the governing sports organization and can't help show notability due to lack of independence. I clicked on a few links from [12], which is when I noticed that none of those pages had an author listed. Looking at the site a bit further, their about page reveals this:
Through "TEAM" readers receive original, exclusive, but primarily verified, reliable and accurate information. In addition to the team of professional sports journalists, the top Macedonian athletes in the role of columnists have their own space and say in "TEAM".

Given that the articles written by athletes don't seem labeled, we're going to have a really hard time verifying that anything in this site is independent. And, given that this is a WP:BLP, I don't think articles with unclear authorship can even be used. Can they?

And as for the links in [11]- The previews just seem routine, but I clicked on them all only to get 404 pages. I've been having lots of trouble with Internet Archive for the past day, and I don't feel like struggling with it for what seems to be, again, routine coverage.

@GiantSnowman I trust your judgement, and you obviously saw something I'm missing. Could you give me the sources you saw that show notability? GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 00:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – In fact, there seems to be a lack of independent sources that provide more in-depth coverage (the best one is from KF Shkendija's own website), but the recreation of the article does not seem to be in bad faith, SALT would be too much. Svartner (talk) 03:29, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Svartner:, For further context, see my comment above, (GiantSnowman has also changed his vote to keep). Thanks Das osmnezz (talk) 07:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, the best source is from the player's own club. For me it is a case of weak keep, but it is on the limit to establish WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 00:34, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It's always routine coverage, talking about parts a player played in a game, Cristiano Ronaldo has huge amounts of what you call routine coverage. You people voting to delete never look at the cumulative amount of sources. This players has more than enough cumulative sourcing to pass WP:BASIC. Govvy (talk) 10:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep—Obvious keep. Had a long, established first-team career, and the sources shown clearly meet WP:GNG. Anwegmann (talk) 21:46, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources? Because, so far, nobody's linked to any source that is independent, reliable, or gives WP:SIGCOV, so I'm not sure how they can count to the GNG. Could you please link the ones you found convincing? GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 22:03, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See Govvy's and Das osmnezz's comments above. Also, as Govvy argues immediately above, collective effect is important and real. Anwegmann (talk) 22:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Govvy gave no independent or significant sources- just interviews, database entries, and routine coverage. Das osmnezz also linked to no sources- just a search result, which was annoying seeing as they specifically filtered one of their search results to a non-independent site, but none of the sources seemed to help the subject pass the GNG. I would just like a link to one source that is independent, provides significant coverage, and is reliable. If the subject "clearly" passes the GNG, this should not be hard to provide, and we shouldn't have to fall on a "collaborative effort" style argument.

I also disagree with Govy's interpretation of WP:BASIC, which establishes that
trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability
but I suppose that's a point of policy for the closer to decide. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 00:42, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GreenLipstickLesbian: Firstly it would be polite to ping me when you talk about me, secondly, of the sources I posted, there are multiple independent sources. To say that of the sources I posted above are not independent is a false statement. I look at cumulative count per WP:BASIC, which has multiple published in bold! Followed by secondary sources that are reliable. Yes there are drips and drabs, but under the guise of BASIC you're allowed to hunt down all sources to build that cumulative count. I am using straight forward simple logic. The first part of BASIC is significant coverage, however that does not indicate it needs to be to one article and never has. There for you are allowed to determine sigcov over multiple articles. This is a constant battle and I really don't understand why seasoned Wikipedians constantly fall into the trap thinking that SIGCOV requires a full storied article, why understanding the BASIC rule allows it to built over multiple articles. I strongly suggest you read and re-read the first bullet point on WP:BASIC. Regards Govvy (talk) 10:49, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't see any independant source, sorry. --SGaurier (talk) 23:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Closer needs to take into account that this user was created on May 11 and 2 out of 3 of his eidts came in football AFDs... Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 04:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep I'm not saying there's any bad faith from anyone involved but I see it as WP:GAMEing the system to say that coverage is just news about signings and games. As Anwegmann and Govvy had been saying, why would media even be interested in those stories if this man didn't have some sort of a following? Anyway, here's a source from Hamburg's Morgenpost documenting his whole career, which is clearly not routine coverage [33]. And before anyone cries "local media", Hamburg has a metro population of 5 million and that newspaper's website is ranked #32 among German news sites. Please also search the native name "Валмир Нафиу", there are tons of results, you can't honestly say that they count for nowt because they are covering individual events over a sequence of several years. Unknown Temptation (talk) 14:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is this source actually from Morgenpost, or HSV? It's not on Morgenpost's official website (www.mopo.de). Rather, the URL is www.hsv24.mopo.de - thus implying it's some form of collaboration between the tabloid and the Naifu's former football club. While I appreciate the serious allegations you and others have made towards my conduct in this AFD, I still find myself questioning this source's independence. I also wonder why, if this man is obviously as notable as everybody is saying, why nobody can produce even one source that is independent, reliable, or in-depth. I have seen a lot of WP:LOTSOFSOURCES, WP:OTHERLANGS, and WP:MUSTBESOURCES type-arguments, however. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 19:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, even though I didn't mention you by name: @Govvy, I tangentially mentioned you in the above comment, and you requested above that I ping you in these situations. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 19:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's part of Morgenpost's domain. I don't see how including the name of a football club on a website indicates that it is operated by the club, and something like that needs assertive proof rather than your gut feeling that it's non-independent, which seems to me to be WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Even the newspaper's press releases about this website don't mention this supposed golden endorsement [34]. I imagine a lot of people buy/read that newspaper just for the football and it helps to have a specialist part of the domain. It's not serious allegations if people think that you're poo-pooing every single source until we find some 1,000-page biography or academic article on this player. I haven't argued WP:OTHERLANGS in the sense of saying foreign Wikipedias are reliable, because they aren't, but have you even searched for his name in his native language before I brought it up? Or Greek for his career in Cyprus? WP:BEFORE. Quite frankly, I'm not going to learn Macedonian to evaluate all of these sources, did you check them before [35] Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:15, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marián Skupek[edit]

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Redirect to Slovakia at the 2022 Winter Olympics#Luge as ATD because I could not find enough in-depth coverage for this athlete to meet WP:GNG. I only found SME while the rest are brief mentions and profile database sources, both types of which are not independent. He was not even in the top three (?) luge winners of mentioned tournament. This might be WP:TOOSOON situation. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 10:13, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Also incoming links from multiple EUropean Championships and multiple World Championships. Geschichte (talk) 14:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep. My last comment was made quite quickly, and now I had the chance to elaborate more. He participated in the following European Championships: 2021, 2022, 2023 and the following World Championships: 2021, 2023, 2024. In addition, he won a gold medal at the 2022 FIL Junior European Luge Championships which gained some attention for being Slovakia's first gold medal in that championship. None of these achievements would hold enough weight on their own, but together I think they just might do. Then there are the sources. [36] [37] [38] [39] (less) [40] (more passing) [41]. These were some of them, partly from a news agency (and I don't understand Slovak by any means), but at least they give some biographical overview. Geschichte (talk) 21:51, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Source #1 can't be accessed at the moment; Source #2 and #3 are duplicated from the SME one I mentioned; Source #6 looks like a blogspot. I also was wondering if you actually use a translator or try to avoid it. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 09:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cullen Large[edit]

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 00:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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A very easy keep. This biography clears GNG and NSPORTS by more than a lot of sports bios I've seen here. There is WP:SIGCOV in The Province, Baseball America, and Sportsnet, all of which are WP:SIRS. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Sportsnet is owned by Rogers Communications, which also owns the Toronto Blue Jays, the organization that had Large at the time that article was written. Let'srun (talk) 15:02, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The subject meets WP:GNG with WP:SIGCOV from multiple reliable sources. JTtheOG (talk) 01:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Weak delete I created this article as a redirect to Toronto Blue Jays minor league players, but I don't think Large is notable enough for a standalone article. The Baseball America reference is a general stat page that all minor league prospects have. In my opinion we only have 2 refs contributing towards notability in terms of SIGCOV (The Province & Sportsnet). If more SIGCOV is found I do think that the article should probably be kept. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Baseball America link is an article, not a stats page. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: This subject meets the WP:GNG because of independent WP:SIGCOV from Baseball America and The Province, which each provides in-depth coverage of the subject. Let'srun (talk) 15:00, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete never made the majors, coverage is sparse and routine. Non-notable minor league baseball player. SportingFlyer T·C 02:52, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Joshua Stander[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found a few pieces with a handful of mentions (1, 2, 3), but nothing significant. There are also trivial mentions in Japanese, which you can see by searching ジョシュア・スタンダー. JTtheOG (talk) 22:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep I think there's enough in English language and Japanese coverage for a weak keep here. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It will be helpful if you can cite most of them here. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Sourcing is trivial and/or routine transactional reports, nothing independent and in depth. JoelleJay (talk) 01:56, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Carey Schueler[edit]

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Subject's only claim to fame is that she was the first woman MLB drafted and thus, they lifted their ban on drafting women, both of which are already mentioned in Women in baseball and her dad's articles. While that may be the case, she never actually played in any MLB or even MiLB game unlike Kelsie Whitmore. Her time in high school and college are not worth mentioning as she was not a star athlete in either cases. The sources backing these claims are either dead links or only mention her briefly and I cannot find enough coverage for her in general to meet WP:GNG or WP:NATHLETE anyway. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 19:46, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 May 21. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 20:17, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Strong Keep. Besides the fact that it feels wrong to relegate a woman who broke through in a male dominated field to a mention in her male relative's article (in an encyclopedia which already has a gender gap issue), her drafting was very significant, lead to a rule change and also, notably not a publicity stunt but based on a genuine assessment of her talent. She is well covered in literature on the subject (1). The article could certainly use expansion (I'd like to find information on her performance in her senior year season, for instance), but that by itself is not reason to delete it any more than any other stub article. 🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How you "feel" is not a legit reason to keep an article. I am sure many other editors' personal point of views conflict with the rules here, but they can do nothing about it. Most of those books in that Google search only mention her for a single sentence or paragraph. That is certainly not "well covered." The Legendary Ranger (talk) 22:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first word in my comment is that besides the fact that it feels wrong. I'm also not talking about my personal feelings here, but commenting on how doing things like redirecting a woman's page to her male relative's only enforces systematic gender bias on wikipedia. Many of the books contain only a paragraph mention, but several of them do contain more coverage than that. 🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Women in baseball per WP:BLP1E. While being the first female drafted in MLB is a big deal, the subject did not sign with, let alone play for, any professional baseball organization. Outside of that, she had a rather unremarkable college basketball career. This person is clearly defined by a single event. She can adequately be covered at the proposed target article, even if information about her high school baseball career is added as suggested by Wasianpower. Frank Anchor 22:40, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per WP:BLP1E. She was drafted by a team which had her father as general manager, she wasn't signed to a contract, and (per the Chicago Tribune reference) she hadn't played baseball for two years before being drafted. The facts suggest this was a stunt for attention. As there is no substantial coverage of her other than that event, I must vote to redirect. Leaning towards Ron Schueler as the target over Women in baseball, as that article is more likely to contain more than de minimis discussion of her. Walsh90210 (talk) 23:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly oppose Ron Schueler as a target. Casey Schueler is most notable for being the first woman drafted by MLB, not for being Ron’s daughter. Frank Anchor 00:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly agree with this. 🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk • contribs) 14:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for two reasons: First, there is a discrete entry about Carey Schueler in two different baseball encyclopedias: Donald Dewey, Nicholas Acocella, and Jerome Holtzman's The New Biographical History of Baseball: The Classic—Completely Revised (Triumph Books, 2002) and Leslie A. Heaphy and Mel Anthony May's Encyclopedia of Women and Baseball (McFarland & Company, 2006), indicating that in the field of baseball history Schueler is considered sufficiently notable for inclusion in encyclopedias. Second, the second criterion of WP:ANYBIO is has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field, and Schueler precipitated the MLB to change a rule about signing contracts for women), an enduring contribution to baseball. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 07:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, passes WP:GNG: see Oakland Tribune feature story (more Tribune coverage), San Francisco Examiner (2), Sunday News, and Orlando Sentinel, as well as the coverage mentioned by Hydrangeans. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Baláž (boxer)[edit]

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With only primary sources listed, this article clearly fails WP:NBOX and WP:GNG. My Google searches came up with Peter Baláž (Esperantist) and a motorcycle driver, both of which are Slovak, but nothing about a boxer with the same birth name. I can't see this article lasting longer-term on Wikipedia. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 09:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no medal means no notability under WP:NSPORT. Can't find any secondary coverage via a search. BrigadierG (talk) 10:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Olympics. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, subject was the starring role in a movie about himself (Goat (2015 film)), and his involvement was covered by such outlets as The Hollywood Reporter[42]. I'm thankful for the nomination because it gives us a chance to improve the article, although I think the nominator did not do WP:BEFORE by looking up the actor's name with the movie's name (Koza) and addressing those sources. --Habst (talk) 12:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I AM the nominator. Sure, not everyone has the same Google search results. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 10:27, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, per the excellent find by Habst. A movie about the subject! BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Just to be clear, the movie is fiction, about a fictional Olympic champion. This article is about a fighter who badly lost his only Olympic fight in the round of 32. Boxrec shows he won 3 of his 57 pro fights.[43] He's not notable as a boxer, but feel free to debate his notability as an actor. Papaursa (talk) 04:06, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Does not meet WP:GNG, WP:NBOX, WP:NOLY as a non-medaling Olympian, or WP:NACTOR, having only starred in one film. As Papaursa noted, the film is not about him. XabqEfdg (talk) 02:37, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to the film. The film is certainly not about "him". Hollywood Reporter asserts that the main character is a "character very close to" Baláž (my emphasis). That's not a completely reliable claim, as the character is a "Olympic boxing champion", which in reality is quite far from Baláž, as described by Papaursa. Still, he is mentioned in the film article, and the film article really needs to be fleshed out, so Baláž' background, again as summarized by Papaursa, can be mentioned there. Geschichte (talk) 21:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blessing Ejiofor[edit]

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Does not appear to pass WP:NBASKETBALL as they do not meet any of the criteria, or WP:GNG as the sources are insufficient to establish that. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:34, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Can I contribute more on this? SusuGeo (talk) 12:22, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, of course. Any editor may work to improve articles, even those that have been nominated for deletion. If you can demonstrate that the person is notable for some reason (you can see my reasons for questioning this below), then you might be able to prevent the article from being deleted! Good luck! P Aculeius (talk) 13:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ [see comment of June 3] unless some reason can be keeping can be located. Normally I would point out that the nominator did not mention having searched for sources, as required by WP:BEFORE. However, this is a college basketball player, and the sources in which you would expect her to be mentioned are probably news sources. A quick search just using the "news" tool above appeared to show minimal coverage: university profiles focused on one of their student athletes, and a couple of basketball scores. Certainly nothing currently in the article demonstrates notability: there are thousands of college basketball players, some of whom are notable, but merely being one doesn't seem to indicate notability. I admit to some uncertainty: is it usual for all Vanderbilt Commodores players to have articles, even those who weren't part of the team for very long and who don't appear to have been primary contributors to their team? It's possible that there's some policy I don't know of here, or some other reason for notability I didn't think of, but it isn't indicated yet. P Aculeius (talk) 13:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@P Aculeius Usually the majority of college players don't have an article. The editor in question seems to have been creating articles of players from Africa rather than Vanderbilt players. There is no inherent notability from playing for Vanderbilt or any other basketball team, college teams or otherwise. All players must simply pass WP:GNG. There are some sources below that have been uncovered since your !vote if you are interested. Alvaldi (talk) 10:15, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Playing professionally would tend to make her more notable, but if the only thing to add is that she's done so, then it may not be enough. I don't discount local sources, but merely being interviewed by a student newspaper, however editorially independent it may be, doesn't confer notability. The question is whether she's done something to bring her to attention at some significant level. For instance, being a major contributor to a championship team, or mentioned (not just in passing, or noting the basketball scores) in news sources with a greater reach than college papers. Sporting figures profiled in national papers or similar sources may be notable. I'm not foreclosing the possibility of notability; just that so far it doesn't seem to be here. P Aculeius (talk) 14:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This subject doesn't appear to have nearly enough to meet the WP:GNG. I found 1 paragraph of coverage at [[44]], and the subject was interviewed by 60 Minutes [[45]]. It is a close call though, so please ping me if more sources are found. This source provides depth but is quite local [[46]]. Let'srun (talk) 02:21, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is also [[47]]. Let'srun (talk) 02:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Please note that locality of sources has no bearing on whether they go towards GNG or not. Proposals to discount local sources have been repeatedly rejected in the past. Regarding other sources, This has a few paragraphs about her. There is also this feature in the The Daily Athenaeum. It is the student newspaper at West Virginia University, something we generally don't consider going towards GNG, but it states in its article that it is editorially independent from the university and does not have a faculty adviser. I'm not sure that changes anything. There is also this feature in relations to the 60 minutes interview. Alvaldi (talk) 09:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It should be noted that since 2022, she has played professionally in Spain and France so there might be some sources there. She is also a member of the Nigerian national team which could indicate that there might be sources about her in the Nigerian media. Alvaldi (talk) 10:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Alvaldi, we have a strong consensus against considering any student papers as contributory to notability, regardless of their editorial independence: However, given their local audience and lack of independence from their student body, student media does not contribute to notability for topics related to home institutions. JoelleJay (talk) 16:28, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay I've usually never consider student papers being contributory to notability but the part about it being editorial independent cast a few doubts in my mind with this particular paper. Thanks for the clearup. Alvaldi (talk) 16:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The SI article is not independent and potentially not RS, as it was written by a WVU sophomore for the Mountaineers Now "FanNation" blog section of SI. JoelleJay (talk) 16:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I assume you are talking about the one Alvaldi posted? I posted a different one above that one. Let'srun (talk) 19:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: in addition to the WP:NBASKETBALL criteria mentioned above, WP:NCOLLATH may be relevant here. However, while the article has some improvements since this discussion began, I still don't see any evidence of notability. The subject doesn't seem to have won any titles or participated in any championships or tournaments of note, and the only details provided in any of the sources describe nothing more than a brief biography focused on her playing basketball at various schools or being a member of various teams or playing in certain places. Nothing that would naturally bring her to national attention, or distinguish her from thousands of other college or minor professional athletes. P Aculeius (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. based on presented citations 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 this person will meet WP:GNG and WP:BIO.Hkkingg (talk) 08:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't had a chance to look at the other sources, but the first one you posted is from Vanderbilt (the school she played for at the time the article was written), and as such isn't independent. Let'srun (talk) 14:03, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

+1 to what Let’srun said. Also, I saw these sources you just mentioned before I made this nomination and they just can’t be used to establish GNG, subject already said WP:NBASKETBALL. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still removing the primary source, we have 4 other sources. I stand by my Keep vote. Again you don't need to protect your nomination and argue every voter that opposes your nomination. this is not a good practice. Let the admins decide.Hkkingg (talk) 19:31, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hkkingg This is not a matter of protecting my nomination (that sounds weird) or whatever, this is a deletion discussion, and this is a matter of letting you know what the policies and guidelines involved really is. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only one of those sources is independent. The first is from Vanderbilt, the second from WVU recruitment affiliate WV Sports Now (written by WVU students/employees), the third from the Vanderbilt student newspaper, and the fourth from the WVU student newspaper. The remaining French source is routine transactional news. JoelleJay (talk) 19:49, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per my above arguments. I don't see the sustained SIGCOV in multiple independent secondary sources to meet GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 19:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This is unusual in that there are several editors here who have put in time to locate sources but they haven't given their opinion on whether or not this article should be Kept, Deleted or maybe moved to Draft space if it looks like they have a promising professional career ahead of them.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: This subject was covered extensively in this SI cover story from 2020 [[48]], and while somewhat local this story from the Patterson Times is dedicated to her [[49]]. Ejiofor was also featured on 60 Minutes in 2020. As such, we have multiple independent, reliable sources providing WP:SIGCOV of the subject with which to meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 00:41, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The SI story is a single event, so we would need sources showing sustained SIGCOV to meet N. The (highly local) Paterson Times source fails YOUNGATH and does not count towards GNG, and the fact she was interviewed on 60 Minutes is also irrelevant as it is not secondary independent coverage. If the only good material we have on her is from a flurry of minor pieces regarding one event in 2020, and nothing else substantial since then, we really don't have an NPOV basis for an article. JoelleJay (talk) 11:30, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no issue with the quality, significance, or relevance of the sources. My question is, what is the subject notable for? Her personal life doesn't establish notability, and being a member of college basketball teams or minor professional basketball teams doesn't establish notability. Being interviewed by sports magazines or similar sources doesn't make her notable. What is it that elevates her above the level of a good but not particularly outstanding young athlete? Has she done something unusual or important that would still be worth mentioning twenty, forty, sixty years down the road? Right now the only specifics about her basketball career, besides a list of teams that she's played for, are that she scored 28 points for the Vanderbilt Commodores over the course of twenty-two games in one season: an average of 1.27 points per game played. In any given year, there are literally thousands of college basketball players with comparable records. P Aculeius (talk) 14:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the references above which establish notability. The SI cover story is one and the other pieces of independent and routine local coverage provided above can count toward the second as expected by GNG. WP:NBIO clearly states that If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. Frank Anchor 01:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But what is she notable for? She's not notable for having been mentioned or even interviewed by multiple publications. These sources would help if they said anything about her that would be notable; do they? As a basketball player, she's got to be notable for doing something important in basketball, and other than a list of teams she's been on, all that we know about her basketball career is that she scored 28 points one year. That's not notable! Virtually every starting player on every college basketball team in the country scores more than that over the course of a season, and they're not all notable. What sets her apart from thousands of non-notable players? It can't all come down to the number of publications that have mentioned her. P Aculeius (talk) 05:17, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 05:07, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete P Aculeius and Vanderwaalforces are right. I had to google about her and there was nothing notable to show off as per WP:GNG. A school university website cant be use as a source as well.--Gabriel (talk to me ) 15:01, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lean keep: according to Nigeria women's national basketball team, Blessing Ejiofor is a member of the team that won the 2023 Women's Afrobasket tournament, an international tournament held every two years, and Nigeria has won the last four tournaments. The team also qualified for this summer's Olympic Games at the 2024 FIBA Women's Olympic Qualifying Tournaments. Now, I don't have enough expertise with the subject to be sure I can identify and cite which sources are appropriate for these, but if Ejiofor is a member of a championship team and (probably) the 2024 Nigerian Olympic basketball team, that might seem to be enough to establish notability. That and what's already in the article would seem to be an even better bet. But someone with more expertise with these tournaments should add this to the article. P Aculeius (talk) 17:16, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not about adding a biography without a reliable source. If she was a member of a championship team. Does that means all members should have a stand alone article without providing sources nor meeting WP:GNG. A Wikipedia page is not a reliable source to why a person should have a stand alone article which you are already diverting to. So pointing those blue link because you found her there still doesn't make her notable. She falls under the category of Too soon. Gabriel (talk to me ) 17:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you read my comment, nowhere did I say that Wikipedia was a source for her notability. I pointed at those articles because if the statements made or implied are correct, then she is probably at least minimally notable, and some of the sources cited in those articles could and should be added here. I deferred doing so to someone with more familiarity with the type of source being listed, as those sources are beyond my realm of expertise. I've said all along that the sources aren't what make someone notable or non-notable: it's the information those sources can be used to verify.

Whether being a member of a championship basketball team or a national Olympic basketball team is sufficient to demonstrate notability, alone or in combination with what's already in the article is a matter of opinion. But I suspect it is, if the sources can be cited by someone with more experience in this field. Since this wasn't previously discussed and isn't currently in the article, I think it potentially changes things. It provides a concrete basis for claiming notability that was lacking before, even though this material needs to be substantiated. However, deleting the article before this has been done would be premature. P Aculeius (talk) 07:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would have the article but can't find significant coverage on google. Gabriel (talk to me ) 09:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ç

W. G. Grace's cricket career (1864 to 1870)[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Too much cruft, must be deleted as per convention to remove the australian fanfict articles Pharaoh496 (talk) 18:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, History, Cricket, and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:32, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because of the same reason:

Pharaoh496 (talk) 05:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also pinging @JoelleJay @Trainsandotherthings @Serial Number 51429 as I have seen them in support for such article removals Pharaoh496 (talk) 05:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:APPNOTE says "The audience must not be selected on the basis of their opinions—for example, if notices are sent to editors who previously supported deleting an article, then identical notices should be sent to those who supported keeping it." James500 (talk) 04:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Naughty, WP:CANVASSing shouldn't be carried out! AA (talk) 12:28, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is clear WP:CANVASSing of people they expect to vote with them. This canvassing should be considered by the closer of this AFD. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AA @James500 like I replied to Joseph2302 on my talk - I have pinged those who also voiced against such votes. The sole purpose of me pinging them was to invite more people into the discussion. I dont cherry pick people of one stance and bring them here. Afaik; thats allowed by the first para in WP:CANVASS. Pharaoh496 (talk) 06:34, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ill take that my wording says otherwise - my intentions dont Pharaoh496 (talk) 06:34, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment What are you referring to by "australian fanfict articles"? -1ctinus📝🗨 01:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keith Miller with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948, discussion to merge completed (please see said discussion)
- Keith Miller with the Australian cricket team in England in 1956 and Keith Miller with the Australian cricket team in England in 1953 already merged, deleted earlier. However this set of wg grace articles have hardly one ga, so many stubs and other full of stuff not required. They arent notable enough for wikipedia.
Pharaoh496 (talk) 04:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the two pages was merged they should not have been deleted. Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. If you copy some text from another Wikipedia page it should be clear in the edit summary and/or the talk page where the text came from. Wikipedia is not public domain. Christian75 (talk) 11:37, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I havent done that mate, just nominated these pages Pharaoh496 (talk) 13:19, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noting that I was pinged to this discussion, and that I'm not a fan of these articles, I believe we should delete all as fundamental violations of WP:NOT as cricket statistics turned into articles due to one person's consumption by what I like to call the cricket insanity. They are also clearly non-notable as the sources cover Grace's entire career, not simply his performance in any given event. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably merge the shorter articles, with less referencing, to larger articles covering longer periods of time. These articles do not consist entirely of statistics, though it may be appropriate to cut some material from them. A chronological split of our W G Grace article will satisfy GNG. See, for example, the coverage of the 1880s in Bax's chapter "The Glorious Eighties" [50]; the chapter on Grace in Portraits of the Eighties: [51]; Midwinter's chapters 7 and 8 on 1879 to 1891: [52]; and Darwin's chapter 6 on 1880 to 1891: [53]. So you could certainly write an article on W. G. Grace in the 1880s or the period 1879 to 1891. The question is not whether the main biography article should be split, but how. W G Grace is the subject of a large number of entire books, since he is probably considered the greatest cricketer of all time, so his biography is not realistically going to fit in a single article. James500 (talk) 04:03, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well other cricketers with longer careers do also have same articles. One new thing that has been inspired from football articles is a seperate career page - Career of Lionel Messi. Since Virat Kohli's page was long, I made this article Career of Virat Kohli. Maybe something similar? Pharaoh496 (talk) 04:39, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/merge all Is this a mockery of some sort? Sure you can split some details from the main article, but why the hell would you make more than a dozen subarticles, each with just a few paragraphs? WP:NOTEVERYTHING and WP:NOTSTATS come to mind here, we don't need prose sections for every season with the stats. Reywas92^Talk 20:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Reywas92, I don't think there's much content at all that could be merged. Having checked a few of the pages, much of the text is already repeated verbatim in the main bio. JoelleJay (talk) 22:17, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I have never looked at these articles before, but would assume they would all be mostly more than a few sentences! The W. G. Grace in the 1878 English cricket season article can be selectively merged. AA (talk) 12:26, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge – The player is very notable in Cricket, but it is possible to summarize the information in the main article, or recreate it in a less number of forks. Svartner (talk) 22:40, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Svartner, most of the info is already repeated verbatim in the main article. Would you support deletion? JoelleJay (talk) 15:59, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't object. Svartner (talk) 16:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Just a reminder, you can't argue for a Merge or a Redirect without providing a specific list of what the target article is for each article being discussed. The discussion closer carries out the consensus, they can't make these decisions up on their own. It's the discussants' role to provide a full resolution to an AFD nomination, not just an outcome. Otherwise, the closer might have to dismiss these kinds of opinions. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean merging these various articles into something more direct, like "W. G. Grace's cricket career". I understand that it is possible to summarize the main content to avoid this number of forks. Svartner (talk) 08:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Liz, I am not aware of any policy, guideline or consensus that says that. I do not think that is how we normally deal with mass proposals. The number of articles nominated, and the number of book chapters that would have to be examined, would make it difficult to compile a complete list of merger targets in the 7 days of an AfD. I think it is perfectly acceptable to say that articles should be merged in accordance with the scope of the chronological chapters in those books, and then leave the final determination to the WP:PROPMERGE process, which does not have a 7 day deadline. For the avoidance of doubt, I have proposed an intial merge of the relevant three articles to W. G. Grace's life from 1879 to 1891 based on the scope of the book chapters I mentioned. To insist that I provide, within 7 days, a list of each and every other target based on the other chronological chapters in those books (and their chapters are chronological) is certainly obstructive, and might confront me with a WP:FAITACCOMPLIS. I see no reason why a closing admin cannot look at the chronological scope of the chapters of those books. James500 (talk) 15:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why are books even in question? Material / content from books do not have to be entirely pasted on here - WikiPedia isnt an alternative for any book. It should contain all relevant information - there is no point making a page of any period of life for any person. Pharaoh496 (talk) 07:44, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
James500, I'm just talking about the practical aspects of closing an AFD discussion. We use XFDCloser and if a closer closes a discussion as Merge, there must be an exiting target article included. It's part of the closure. And a closer is not supposed to be coming up with original solutions like deciding how articles should be divided up, they are supposed to determine consensus, that's all. If a closer did as you advise, they would be accused of making a "supervote" and probably brought to WP:AN or Deletion review where they would experience a deserved condemnation and mocking. I know because I was accused of making a supervote when I first started closing AFD discussions. No fun at all. So, I'll pass on following your advice. At this point, I've closed thousands of AFD discussions and I'm not going to invent some new solution for this one. But I feel involved now so I'll refrain from closing this discussion. I have a feeling that this discussion will close as "No consensus" unless there is agreement on a resolution that can be easily implemented. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:22, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Like I mentioned - a seperate article called Career of W.G. Grace, which is like a few prexisting articles. That covers all Pharaoh496 (talk) 17:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Noting that I was pinged here after having participated in several other cricket career salami-slice article discussions (many non-AfDs). FWIW, I definitely would have !voted in this even without being pinged since I watch the sportspeople delsort. Anyway, I agree with TaOT and AA (!!!) that these articles are not salvageable and should be deleted (with maybe some content from the 1878 one merged?). They are largely prosifications of routine, primary stats reports from CricketArchive with a handful of trivial anecdotes and quotes sprinkled in. If there was anything from these time periods worth including in the main article it would not be from these articles and therefore merging is not appropriate.
As an example, of the 1871 sources: 34/58 sources are stats, corresponding to 1480/2348 words. Of the remainder, 777 are to presumably secondary independent sources, with 640 words outside the lead. Out of those 640, 411 are repeated verbatim (or nearly) in the main page. That leaves the total amount of content that could be merged at 229 words:
Grace turned 23 in July 1871
Grace in 1871 was principally involved with four teams: the Gentlemen, Gloucestershire County Cricket Club, Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC) and the United South of England Eleven (USEE).
1871 was a wet summer and, even when the rain relented, there was a persistent chilly wind.[8] Grace, however, had the skill and resilience to cope with adverse conditions and some of his best batting performances were achieved on wet wickets.
This innings was played on a "sticky wicket" after rain and many people considered it the finest of Grace's career, though Grace himself disagreed.
Grace began the innings cautiously and took fifteen minutes to score his first run but then, records Rae, he "scored at a cracking pace".[9] MCC Secretary Harry Perkins had no doubts and insisted that it was Grace's greatest-ever performance with rain frequently stopping play and making the wicket at times "unplayable".
Grace's presence ensured a bumper crowd with over £400 being taken at the gate. This money went a long way towards the £1500 that Nottinghamshire needed to erect the Trent Bridge Pavilion.
Simon Rae remarked that cricket enthusiasts still argue about Grace's "greatest season" and that 1871 features in any such discussion.
He took 79 wickets at 17.02 with a best analysis of 7–67. He claimed five wickets in an innings 5 times and twice had 10 in a match.
The bolded "finest" innings being referred to is from a "Married v. Single" first-class match, which I've gone ahead and merged into the main article (with author attribution). The rest of the material is trivial or would be redundant. Considering the 1871 page is one of the few containing any unique non-trivial, non-primary content, I think it is reasonable to consider the rest of the articles unsalvageable forks that should be deleted rather than merged. JoelleJay (talk) 18:27, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Cruft-based forks of the main biography. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 20:16, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Since there's a valid ATD on the table, per Liz's comment, it would be helpful to know what information should be merged and to where.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, voorts (talk/contributions) 01:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The previous relister's concerns remain unanswered.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 05:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - because Wikipedia isn't a mirror to hold minute by minute biographical details of a person. WP:NOTMIRROR Also I oppose a merge because that would create a massive wall of words that totally overstate the person's actual importance. We are supposed to be editors which implies distilling subjects down to the important points and not trying to write down every last fact we can find about a subject. JMWt (talk) 06:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge W.G. Grace was the outstanding cricketer of his time, but we only should have one biographical article on his career. The existence of multiple articles looks like an attempt to use WP as if it were a book, not an encyclopaedia. Having a book length biography would of course be wholly legitimate, but not within WP.

Peterkingiron (talk) 17:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete these pages go into unnecessary excruciating detail over his career. I oppose a merge/redirect because (1) the relevant information needed the main W.G. Grace article, and (2) these titles are highly unlikely search terms. For example, someone looking for information about W. G. Grace's cricket career between 1879 and 1882 is far more likely to search for Grace himself and find the appropriate content on his article, rather than searching for the oddly specific "W. G. Grace's cricket career (1879 to 1882)." Frank Anchor 18:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tango Balekile[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The most I found were a handful of sentences here. JTtheOG (talk) 17:36, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 17:36, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There's this, this and this found in a simple search. Enough for a GNG pass I think. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:20, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first two sources are ok, but are from the same day and about the same topic, while the third source has 3-ish IRS sentences and so is pretty far from being the sustained SIGCOV expected for N. Can you find more sources? JoelleJay (talk) 16:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Not enough coverage for a comprehensive independent biography IMO. JoelleJay (talk) 01:05, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Georges Charmoille[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I have been draftifying some articles about 120 years old gymnasts with very insufficient sourcing. This one I'm sending straight to AFD. The log indicates that a WP:LUGSTUB used to occupy the article title Georges Charmoille, before being moved to Gustave. In other words, there seems to have been unreliable sources somewhere along the way regarding his first name. There could be a situation where two brothers were gymnasts, but since this new article doesn't address that discrepancy at all, I consider it completely worthless. The Gustave article currently sits at Draft:Gustave Charmoille, but Georges can't be redirected there since redirects from mainspace to draftspace aren't allowed. Therefore: just nuke this one for emphatically failing WP:SPORTCRIT and problems with WP:V. Geschichte (talk) 10:27, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and France. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:54, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Does Wikipedia:NOLYMPICS apply here? There are a lot of Olympics books that name him as a bronze medalist in 1906. For example[54][55][56]
This should be transcluded to the Olympics deletion sorting list. If I knew how, I'd do it myself. Oblivy (talk) 11:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Oblivy As I mentioned above, there are serious uncertainties about who "Georges" Charmoille really is. We already have a draft for Gustave, who is recognized as the correct name for the Olympian by Olympedia, at least. Geschichte (talk) 13:06, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The two sources at Gustave are websites that lack citations for their assertions. archive.org has one hit for Gustave, seemingly about a dance performance. It has 38 hits about Georges, admittedly all post-1980. The official site lists Georges as competing but not medalling in 1908. Oblivy (talk) 13:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Olympedia seems to say he's known by both names? Seems very likely notable if he's the WORLD champion gymnast - deletion would seem to leave him as the only champion without an article per Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsMenHorizontalBar? BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Note that the draft at "Gustave" was also previously "Georges". I am sure we could ask the Olympedia team for their research on the matter to better know which name should be the article title - and for sources to use in it. I don't have significant time to do it, so I am neutral on whether the content of this article should be moved to the current draft article likely about the same person or not, but if it's going to take some time for clarity, it probably should. Kingsif (talk) 22:42, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep on its face, he meets the WP:NSPORTS requirement for medalling at an Olympic games. I recognize the possible argument that the 1906 games weren't really the Olympics (note old discussion here that did not reach a consensus) but they were considered the Olympics at the time and so the same spirit of best-in-the-world seems to apply.
Gustave vs. Georges seems irrelevant to this discussion. I don't think one uncited claim on a website is enough to discard the many books listing him under Georges. If necessary, create a redirect from Gustave and mention the controversy (if it can be supported by RS) on this page. Oblivy (talk) 13:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep although there doesn't seem much to say. That the first name is uncertain seems to me to be irrelevant, it is entirely possible he used both names or one was his common name and the other his official name. JMWt (talk) 10:29, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary: the uncertainty about the first name pertains to the very root of the WP:V issue: who was this person? It's not up to us to speculate on which name was what, we need reliable sources. Geschichte (talk) 09:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm having trouble understanding the verifiability issue. We have a number of record books with the Georges name in them. And the official Olympic website says Georges as the principal name.
On the other hand, we have the secondary name on the Olympics site and a website associating that name with him. Anything else? Is there a reliable source that is clearly him and gives Gustave as the principal name? If someone added a sentence or two discussing name controversy, wouldn't the full picture be disclosed? Oblivy (talk) 12:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Lack of sourcng... I tried a search in the BNF newspaper archives, this was all that came up [57] second to last paragraph in the last column on the right. A person with the same name died in a torpedo attack. Oaktree b (talk) 14:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Alandré van Rooyen[edit]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found was routine transfer news (1, 2). JTtheOG (talk) 23:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete Absolutely heaps of coverage, but the majority of it is transactional, a bit of a surprise given he played in the English top league, but heyho. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Week Keep - Found this should pass WP:BASIC

[58], [59], [60], [61]. Otbest (talk) 19:00, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: 1 is a primary source. 2 is a duplicate of 4, which is a routine transactional announcement with two sentences of coverage. 3 is a routine transactional announcement with two sentences of coverage. Even BASIC requires significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources. JTtheOG (talk) 19:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Sione Fonua[edit]

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Fan sites and blogs are generally not regarded as reliable sources. Shinadamina (talk) 19:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Suggest a procedural keep as no rationale for deletion has been presented. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:04, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep/weak keep There's coverage of his World Cup appearances, and his post playing career in law. I think there's enough here for a keep. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:32, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Rugbyfan22 The coverage I see are stats pages and mentions. I do not see any in-depth coverage on the individual which is needed to show notability. If you see such coverage, please post the links. Shinadamina (talk) 01:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete I had a good dig and didn't turn up anything that establishes notability. I have a feeling given his post-rugby career in law and Tongan politics there might be good sources in the Tongan language, but I wasn't able to unearth any. David Palmer//cloventt ^(talk) 08:41, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There is credible a good impact of this article. Though it doesn't satisfy WP:SIGCOV and the sources were few of database results. I am quite certain that the article individual exists and has been covered in little coverage this, and others. A redirect/draftify should work better here against deletion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 19:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. As well as his rugby playing career, which included playing in all four of Tonga's matches at the 2003 Rugby World Cup, he became a prominent lawyer in Tonga, serving as president of the Tongan Law Society and as a member of the 2009 Tongan Constitutional and Electoral Commission. He was a founder and president of the Paati Langafonua Tu'uloa (Sustainable Nation-Building Party), and was a candidate in Tongan general elections in 2008, 2010 and 2014. Paora (talk) 11:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. It would be a alot easier if the people who wanted to keep the article shared the sources, or even better, added them to and expanded the article. Geschichte (talk) 11:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

George Braakman[edit]

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level or bronze/silver medals at the senior-level national championships explicitly do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. PROD removed. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Subject has some decent coverage at [[62]] and [[63]]. Not a ton here but probably enough to pass the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 14:01, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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William Nagle (figure skater)[edit]

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level or bronze/silver medals at the senior-level national championships explicitly do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. PROD removed. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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An obit here, as well as coverage in the New York Times here and here. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep: Per source presented by Beanie fan. I think it's unusual nominating articles because they are short. WP:NSKATE is an additional Wikipedia policy. If per the sources they the articles won those awards, then he meets WP:ANYBIO and sources per WP:SIGCOV and WP:GNG. please do run WP:BEFORE and not bypass it. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Danny Moir[edit]

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level or bronze/silver medals at the senior-level national championships explicitly do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. PROD removed. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:37, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Subject meets the WP:GNG with sources such as [[64]], [[65]] and [[66]]. Let'srun (talk) 13:16, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Natalia Mitsuoka[edit]

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level or bronze/silver medals at the senior-level national championships explicitly do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. PROD removed. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:36, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Subject meets the WP:GNG with the SkateToday article already in the article in addition to [[67]]. Let'srun (talk) 13:51, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Wang Meng (figure skater)[edit]

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Fails WP:NSKATE; medal placement at the junior level or bronze/silver medals at the senior-level national championships explicitly do not meet the requirements of WP:NSKATE. PROD removed. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:31, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep there is sufficient independent coverage.--Wish for Good (talk) 04:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wish for Good, are you going to share with the rest of the class or should we just take your word for it? Bgsu98 (Talk) 22:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Isaac Álvarez (footballer)[edit]

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Reviewed during NPP. No evidence of wp:notability under GNG or SNG. Has only two datbase entry / stats sources. Main statement is that he was on the team for a South American championship but didn't play. North8000 (talk) 14:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: From the DICCIONARIO BIOGRAFICO DEL FUTBOL BOLIVIANO (1930-2000):

"Nombre completo: Isaac Álvarez Moscoso. Apodo: La “Araña negra”. Nacimiento: Cochabamba, 6 de julio de 1933. Posición: Guardameta, No 1. Padres: ..... Esposa: ..... Hijos: Jorge Isaac, Jenny Carmiña, Martín Erick. Estudios: Primaria Escuela Carrillo, Secundaria Colegio Carrillo de Cochabamba. Otros Estudios: INSEF. Profesor de Educación Física. Cursos de Dirección Técnica. Clubes: En el Club 31 de Octubre (1963), de La Paz. Participación en la selección: Es Campeón Sudamericano de 1963. Jugó por la selección boliviana dos partidos oficiales (1963-1965) y fue batido en tres oportunidades. Es Campeón Sudamericano Invicto 1963. No tuvo participación oficial en dicho campeonato figurando en la banca. Dirección Técnica: Fue Preparador Físico en The 16 Strongest (1990). Otros Datos: Practicó el Atletismo, el Básquetbol, el Voleibol y el Fútbol. Distinciones: El gobierno mediante la repartición respectiva condecoró con la Medalla al Mérito Deportivo en el Grado de Caballero del Deporte, al cumplirse los 40 años de la conquista del XXI Campeonato Sudamericano. Además de ser acreedor a la pensión vitalicia de 4 sueldos mínimos mensuales."

There is also a bit of coverage here, which although not published in a reliable source, is definitely more evidence of notability. JTtheOG (talk) 17:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 15:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 15:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @GiantSnowman: What's wrong with the ~170 word encyclopedia entry listed above? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Based on Google Translate, it covers the names of his children and the schools he went to in brief list form, and then briefly covers his playing career and then his pension... it's not enough on its own. Giant Snowman 15:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  It gives a decent enough bit of coverage for SIGCOV I think:

Full name: Isaac Álvarez Moscoso. Nickname: The “Black Spider”. Birth: Cochabamba, July 6, 1933. Position: Goalkeeper, No 1. Parents: ..... Wife: ..... Children: Jorge Isaac, Jenny Carmiña, Martín Erick. Studies: Primary School Carrillo, Secondary School Carrillo de Cochabamba. Other Studies: INSEF. Physical Education Teacher. Technical Management Courses. Clubs: At the 31 de Octubre Club (1963), in La Paz. Participation in the national team: He is the 1963 South American Champion. He played for the Bolivian team in two official matches (1963-1965) and was beaten three times. He is the 1963 Undefeated South American Champion. He had no official participation in said championship, appearing on the bench. Technical Direction: He was a Physical Trainer on The 16 Strongest (1990). Other Information: He played Athletics, Basketball, Volleyball and Soccer. Distinctions: The government, through the respective distribution, awarded the Medal of Sports Merit in the Degree of Knight of Sports, on the 40th anniversary of the conquest of the XXI South American Championship. In addition to being a creditor of the lifetime pension of 4 minimum monthly salaries

- Probably could use more sources though... BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The above source is pretty comprehensive and he definetly has more offline sources, having won the 1963 South American Championship with the Bolivia national team. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 07:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete—One unsourced encyclopedia entry means very little. In my view, this does not come close to sustained and significant coverage. Anwegmann (talk) 21:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. I actually think the encyclopedia entry does show prominence, especially as it mentions that he was given what seems to be a prominent sports medal by the government and that the Bolivian government granted him a lifetime pension for his sporting career. The blog post, while a blog, should also be considered here as it mentions he was "one of the glories" (of his club?). Considering that no Bolivian sources from the time have been searched, I'd lean towards keeping, considering that it is highly likely someone of such prominence would receive SIGCOV and we already arguably have SIGCOV in the encyclopedia entry for WP:SPORTCRIT. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:10, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You make good points. I think a "no consensus" is probably the best outcome here, as this article needs a deeper dive. Anwegmann (talk) 01:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you cite backups for the encyclopedia. I understand what you mean but for the articles state currently, there is no SIGCOV. I also understand that you argue of possible existing sources, can you help digging? I can't give much weight of the encyclopedia. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 10:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Backups for the encyclopedia? What do you mean? Why is an encyclopedia discussing the most important Bolivian footballers not to be given any weight, especially when it says the government thought him to be such an important player that they granted him a lifetime pension? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:34, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I disagree with the no consensus outcome. How a whole discussion should be on an encyclopedia that didn't give much per WP:SIGCOV. The fact proven is that the footballer isn't notable to the measure of being entered as an article. There are much sources needed to prove all claims in the article as well as being direct of how sources are analyzed. This may meet GNG but for the fact that we can't say a little written about him is enough for citing sources. Its not even a biographical book. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 10:12, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]