Author Topic: Vacpots, Q's and A's  (Read 73452 times)

BoldJava

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #150 on: October 05, 2008, 06:10:08 AM »
This week, I roasted some Java Pancoer and some Yemen.  I cupped it from the Yama and had high expectations.  Was disappointed as it was virtually flat, lacking in body.  I cupped it again this afternoon in a gold filter/chemex pourover and it was excellent.

Interesting how just a few coffees fade in the vacuum pot when most of them step up and shine.

B|Java


^  Been playing with the Java Pancoer in the Yama.  Stepped up the amount of coffee by 10% and for whatever reason, this bean requires that heavier dosing (50g, 22 oz H20) to give the shine to the cup.

^  Kept an 8-cup from the 2nd distribution for the B|Java abode.  The Czarina has been so impressed with the cup that she is taking cup 2 in a Zojirushi SS thermos daily.  Needed to make 2 pots of the 5-cup; hoping the 8-cup will be sufficient for our morning ritual.

^  Used the Corning filter with the 8-cup this morning. (Pic credit, baharris.org)  Works beautifully.

B|Java
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 06:12:27 AM by BoldJava »

caeffe

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #151 on: October 06, 2008, 10:38:09 PM »
Hi all caffeine guzzlers!!

I want to thank BJava for the distribution of these vacuum pots.  I ordered the 5c tabletop.  I was somewhat indecisive whether to order one let alone to choose between the stovetop and the tabletop.  Like most of you here, I have plenty of other coffee toys - espresso machines, grinders, and of course I wanted to try my hand at roasting with an I-Roast (original 1).  I also have a Starbucks Utopia, unfortunately, the water doesn't go north anymore.  After seeing some pictures of the tabletop I thought it would at least be an elegant way of making/serving coffee however I had to see one in action.  So, when I had the opportunity I took wife and kids to LA to LA Mill.  Based on the reaction of my kids - I ordered the tabletop with the Cory rod.

I didn't read through here to 'optimize' making the brew as I was too excited to get it started.  I actually made tea first - BTW it makes a great clean cup of tea using loose leaf.

Anyways I started with 35g using Belle espresso - I think I let sit too long as it was somewhat bitter.  I tsounds like I should up-dose and use 45g but watch my time.

I didn't see any close-up pictures of the tabletop and I wasn't sure how you serve from it.  So for those wondering here are some pictures - next to the stove and next to my Elektra Micro Casa for scale and somewhat a closeup of how the pieces come apart for serving.

BTW, I had no problems with the shipment via Fedex - no breakage.  I commend BJava as I think he also added some bubble wrap inside the original box along with peanuts as part of the double box job.  Maybe the pictures (albeit of poor quality) will convince others to request more of these so BJava can continue their distribution.

Thanks again and I eagerly await to read more so I can optimize usage!

BoldJava

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #152 on: October 07, 2008, 04:13:04 AM »
Quote
BTW, I had no problems with the shipment via Fedex - no breakage.  I commend BJava as I think he also added some bubble wrap inside the original box along with peanuts as part of the double box job.  Maybe the pictures (albeit of poor quality) will convince others to request more of these so BJava can continue their distribution....


Thanks.  I won't be offering the tabletop ceramic as there is too much breakage with the ceramics.  I am dealing in the background with it.  Doing this on a club price level, I have no margins for the money that is involved surrounding breakage, member disappointment, let alone calls, time, and energy.  Might consider the table top, without the ceramic.  If I tossed in the Bunsen burner (better heat control), it would mirror the price of the ceramic.

Thoughts?

http://www.northwestglass.com/tabletop-syphon3-pi-279.html?invis=0

B|Java
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 04:15:07 AM by BoldJava »

jspain

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #153 on: October 07, 2008, 04:38:33 AM »
Dave,

That's a thought! I understand your other issues for not wanting to distro the table top with the ceramic base. Actually now that I have an 8 cup stove top the 5 cup ceramic is in the bedroom! I love the table top, but the stove top gives me more volume of coffee and works better. As you know I struggled to "get it right" with the table top but boy the stovetop 8 cupper works great every time and I only use the cory rod. I believe it gives even better flavors. However after the big wind a few weeks back I was without electric for 5 days and the table top was a "LIFE SAVER!" It has a place.

Go for the 8 cup stove top coffee lovers! You'll never regret it! thanks Dave for the distro! Jim ;D BTW,

caeffe

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #154 on: October 07, 2008, 11:05:18 AM »

Thanks.  I won't be offering the tabletop ceramic as there is too much breakage with the ceramics.  I am dealing in the background with it.  Doing this on a club price level, I have no margins for the money that is involved surrounding breakage, member disappointment, let alone calls, time, and energy.  Might consider the table top, without the ceramic.  If I tossed in the Bunsen burner (better heat control), it would mirror the price of the ceramic.

B|Java

I didn't realize the breakage was with the ceramic.  I thought it was with the glass.
I chose the tabletop ceramic because of it's uniqueness.  Not from a functional point but aesthetic.

If the margins don't support I completely understand why you'd want to discontinue.  One needs to balance time between making coffee and helping others  ;D
I'm glad I got it now as I actually considered getting the tabletop during your 1st distro but couldn't decide or timing of funds wasn't right.

Thx again for the opportunity

BoldJava

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #155 on: October 08, 2008, 04:45:22 AM »
Any Kent fans out there?  Didn't see any bids so I don't think I am blowing someone's secret:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330277380240

B|Java

Offline Dante

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #156 on: October 08, 2008, 05:40:15 AM »
Any Kent fans out there?  Didn't see any bids so I don't think I am blowing someone's secret:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330277380240

B|Java


Interesting find, Dave. I'm taking a crack at it!  >:D
No coffee, No workee!

Offline headchange4u

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #157 on: October 08, 2008, 05:51:07 AM »
I've seen a few of the red Kent vac pots go through Ebay. They look really cool but with many of them the red finish has rubbed off in spots. I am on the lookout for one of the green Cory's like BoldJava scored or one of the Cory's with the white milk glass.

Offline Dante

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #158 on: October 12, 2008, 08:55:12 PM »
I bought this on ebay today, supposedly unused. No other description other than never been used.


No coffee, No workee!

BoldJava

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #159 on: October 13, 2008, 04:06:17 AM »
I bought this on ebay today, supposedly unused. No other description other than never been used...


Not sure if that is a vacpot or one of Cory's percolators.  How did they have it advertised?

Give us a shout out when it hits the Philippine Sea.

B|Java
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 04:12:06 AM by BoldJava »

Offline Dante

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #160 on: October 13, 2008, 04:36:59 AM »
I bought this on ebay today, supposedly unused. No other description other than never been used...


Not sure if that is a vacpot or one of Cory's percolators.  How did they have it advertised?

Give us a shout out when it hits the Philippine Sea.

B|Java

Sure looks the same Dave. So, it seems I got myself a Cory percolator for my coffee museum here in Manila! The ebay listing was generic - Cory coffee brewer. I'll send a review to the forum as soon as I get to try this old lady.
No coffee, No workee!

Offline headchange4u

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #161 on: October 15, 2008, 01:46:51 PM »
After purchasing a Yama 8 cup from the group buy, I am sending out my Bodum Santos to it's new owner today. Before the Santos got boxed up I took a few pics so that I could give a comparison between the 2 vac pots and some of the difference in the way that they operate.

Here's a shot of the 2 vac pots side by side.


You can see that the Yama's bottom pot is slightly larger than the Bodum's bottom pot. The Yama does make more coffee than the Bodum. I normally filled my Bodum well past the 8 cup mark and it would almost perfectly fill my Stanley thermos. If I fill the Yama past the 8 cup mark it will fill my thermos to the top with about 125 to 175 ml (~4 to 6 oz) of extra brew, depending on how far I go past the 8 cup mark.

The Bodum's top funnel is also larger than the Yama's, excessively so IMHO. A full bottom pot in the Bodum will only fill the top funnel a little over half way. A full pot in the Yama fill it's top funnel almost to the top.

You can see in this picture that the stems on the funnel portion are also different. The Yama's stem is longer and thinner. You can also see that the gaskets between the top and bottom are vastly different between the two pots. The Yama's gasket kinda locks the top and bottom together. The Bodum funnel simply just rests on the pot and relies on the vacuum created to make the seal. I have actually broken the vacuum seal on the Bodum before, when removing it from the stove. The Yama's gasket setup creates a much more secure feel to the whole setup.


One big difference between the 2 vac pots is the temperature that I set the stove at when brewing. With the Santos, my stove is was set at about 6.5 (out of 10). Once about 80% of the water had moved into the top funnel I would cut the heat back to about a 3.

The first time I used my Yama I used the same settings but the migration of water to the top was very slow. I turned the heat up to about 8 to speed up the process. After the water had moved to the top I cut the heat back to 3 and added my coffee. I turned around to grab my stirring paddle, and when I turned back to the stove, the water had already dumped back into the bottom pot. I have since learned that I have to keep the heat at about 4.5 to maintain the water in the top of the vac pot. I am assuming that these differences in the heat setting are because of the use of the wire spacer that I use with my Yama pot. The Santos sat directly on the burner.

The stock Bodum filter is a plastic disc with grooves on the bottom. The grooves are small enough to allow the coffee to be siphoned down while small enough to stop the grounds. This design works but it it dependent on the grind; if the grind is to fine you will get issues with stalling and/or sediment in the final brew. I have found that the stock Bodum filter is much more prone to stalling than the stock Yama cloth filter. It also seems more prone to stalling as compared to using a glass filter rod. Here are a couple of shots of the filters for each vac pot:


The Bodum Santos does come with a slew of accessories including this nifty cleaning brush:


Also included with the Bodum is this table top spirit burner that uses alcohol. I only used this burner a couple of times and it is very slow. I had better luck using my penny stove.


There stirring paddle that comes with the Yama, with it's wider paddle end and incorporated measuring spoon, is 100% better than what is included with the Bodum:


I also prefer the Yama's top/funnel stand combo over what is included with the Bodum. The Bodum stand makes things feel top heavy and unstable.



Both vacuum pots make a really tasty cup of coffee. I could find no real difference in the taste of the cup that each pot produced, but I do prefer the Yama over the Bodum. The Yama seems to me to be better designed overall. The glass in the Yama is thicker and seems like it would be much better for everyday use. I also like the gasket on the Yama much better. Although the Bodum comes with more bells and whistles out of the box, I didn't use any of them with any regularity.

The only major grip that I have against the Yama is having to use the wire grid on my electric stove.




BoldJava

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #162 on: October 15, 2008, 03:57:57 PM »
Great comparative post.  Thanks for taking the time and energy with the photos and narrative comparison, B|Java

BoldJava

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #163 on: October 16, 2008, 03:52:30 AM »
A dandy vintage Silex without bids on eBay this a.m.  Curious how we got away from anything that required time, hands-on, and a sense of flair such as this pictured vacpot and moved to today's ubiquitous Mr. Coffee, seen in the first 56 homes you visit.  Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woowho, B|Java
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 04:20:22 AM by BoldJava »

BoldJava

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Re: Vacpots, Q's and A's
« Reply #164 on: January 03, 2009, 04:49:50 AM »
Got to revive the thread with a new group of Yama Klubbers joining the fold. Ships next week.

Tossed this review up over at CoffeeGeek.  Trying to set a GCBC record for longest post as well as a have a post to which new buyers may be directed as a starting point.

Positive Product Points

After six months of daily use, I can say this:  No other coffee preparation showcases the individual characteristics and properties of a coffee as well as does a vacpot.  Of course, your mileage may vary.

Negative Product Points

Handle-collar can work loose (tighten screw ~ every 3 months, gently).  Very putsy, time-consuming approach to coffee making for those in a rush on M-F schedules.  Doesn't make partial pots very well.  The 5-cup pot design (with a narrow neck) makes for difficult cleaning, but more on that later.

Detailed Commentary

This review will cover both the 5- and the 8-cup stovetop models.  The 5-cup will give you 20-22 oz of finished coffee while the 8-cup model offers you 34-36 ounces of brew.

What's it come with?  Inside the well packed box is a heat diffuser for those who use electric (gas stoves require no diffuser).  Dig more deeply and you will find a plastic stand that holds the upper globe, as well as a plastic spoon/stirrer.  Also included is the standard metal filter, covered with a cotton cloth and an extra cloth filter cover as well.

How to describe the set-up?  There are two parts to the glass unit.  First is the standard base pot.  Then there is an upper globe with a descending glass tube that may well invite a granite counter to come knocking.  Careful with it, mate.  When assembled, the upper globe sits comfortably positioned in and on the lower base pot, resting on a substantial rubber gasket.  So you are not alarmed, the tube does not reach the bottom of the pot and you are left during the steeping process with about 2 oz <?> of water in the base at all times.  Don't worry about it; it is designed that way.

OK, let's get started.  Remember, I said this was a putsy way to make coffee.  If you are in a rush, put the unit away and come back Saturday.  Keep in mind that opinions on the ideal 'prep' work for a vacpot vary.  My approach is one of many.  Don't get rigid or anal about this.  This is coffee-making, not a physics problem to be solved. Experiment and find what works well with you and stick with it.  This is a pot worth mastering.

1)  Take the filter and drop it into the upper globe.  Make sure that the chain that descends from the filter leads down the globe's tube, out the bottom.  Pull on that spring-loaded hook at the end of the filter and secure it over the lip of the tube.  Then, rest the upper dome in the plastic dome stand, well out of the way.

2)  Fill your coffee pot with water to the fill line (again, I only prepare full pots as most owners struggle with partial pots).  Wipe off the bottom of the pot to ensure that no moisture remains.  Place the heat diffuser on the burner and turn the burner to about med-hi, about a 6.8 out of 10.  You will need about 10 minutes of an initial water heat up, so now turn your attention to the beans.

3)  Coffee grinding.  I use a grind just a tad finer than drip grind.  Quantity?  I use 42g of coffee with the 5-cupper and 72g with the 8 cupper.  Do not add the coffee to the upper globe at this time.  Use the amounts above as a starting point and adjust to your tastes.

4)  When the water begins to steam, adjust the burner down to about 5.  As the first bubbles escape from the water in the pot, put the upper globe on top of the pot.  Gently snug it down so the upper globe is sitting securely on top of the pot.  It should be even and level.  Turn the water down again to 3.5 (out of 10).  Water will begin migrating north into the upper globe.  Set your kitchen timer on the microwave for 3 minutes. 

4a)  When I began with vacpots, I used a thermometer to learn at what stove setting the water would rise, what it took to get to 196, what is took to hold it there, etc.  You can practice with plain water.  No need to work out a science project on good coffee.  Experiment with plain water until you have a feel for it.

5)  When virtually all the water migrates north (remember, an ounce or so always remains), now add the coffee, a tablespoon at a time.  When the first coffee hits the water, start your 2:00 minute steep (3:00 time setting helps monitor the length of time of the down-draft) .

6)  Once you have added all the coffee, use the provided stirring rod (or rice paddle - buy one) to push down the coffee from the center, toward the side and down the edge of the globe.  Do this a second time, just before pulling the coffee off the burner.  Avoid stirring the coffee; it leads to stalls; an event that occurs when water no longer migrates back south.  I use a rice paddle (about 3.5 inches wide) as it moves more coffee down more quickly.  You are trying to make sure that all the coffee is moist and available for the best extraction of acids, proteins, and oils.  Again, don't stir but rather push the coffee down the side of the upper globe.

7)  At the 2:00 minute mark (2:20 with the 8-cupper), turn off the burner and pull the unit off the burner.  Let it cool on the stovetop, away from the heat source.  Within about 15-20 seconds, the coffee will begin to migrate back south, as the vacuum draws the coffee down.  There is a wonderful 'whoosh' when the last of the 30-45 second migration and vacuum concludes.  Ah, get ready.

8]  Use a pot holder to lift the upper globe out of the lower pot and place it gently into the plastic globe holder.  Gently move it out of the way.  Now, pour and enjoy.

Matters to arm-wrestle over

1) Scrubbing the cotton filter.  If you use the provided cotton filter, an old toothbrush or a grouphead brush and very hot water clean it well.  No soap.  Make sure your filter is dry before putting away or keep it in a cup of water in the frdige (to avoid bacteria growth).  Some suggest that the brushing wears down the filter too quickly.   They are a buck each and last 3-5 months.  Find them on eBay or anywhere on the net.

2)  Boiling water before hand.  Some are in a rush and will boil the water in a water kettle and then pour it into the lower pot (Thugmusk Rich suggests this is in the directions -- I have always had a problem with authority). This speeds up the entire process.  To me, this step merely intrudes into a very tactile, Zen-like process that I have no desire to complicate.  I have the rest of my life to make a pot of coffee and am seeking ways to slow down, not rush through it.  A Yama plays well with my philosophy. 

3)  Do not, repeat, do not put coffee into the upper globe until all the water has migrated north. Why not?  Water begins migrating at about 145 degrees.  The lower temp water will begin extracting the coffee, far below ideal temps.  You will end up with a poorly extracted cup. 

Note:  If you have a successful partial-pot routine, please respond via the 'write' at the bottom -- few have succeeded with less than a full pot.  Thanks.

Tips

1)  I prefer to use a Cory or a Corning glass filter, available on eBay.  You can grab one for about $9-12 shipped.  Watch out of chipped tops (aka bumped heads) and sharp edges.  You can generally see those on the eBay enhanced photos.  Ask questions of the seller if you have them.  Many of these were made in the 40's and 50's and are literally worn down from years of use.  They work fine.  Here is an easy search to help you {http://xrl.us/CoryRodforYama (Link to shop.ebay.com)  }   Don't worry about which one you get; they all work well (Cory, New Cory, and Corning).

2)  Don't be in a rush to get a perfect cup.  Getting a good pot out of a Yama takes time to learn but once you've got it, it is like riding a bicycle.

3)  If you have an inexpensive grinder, stick with the provided metal/cotton filter.  The use of a Cory or Corning filter requires a uniform grind from a decent grinder that produces a uniform grind.  If you are using a Cory filter, make doubly sure not to bump the Cory rod with the stick/paddle when pushing the grounds down.  Do not stir; push the grounds down to saturate them.  Stirring invites stalls.

4)  If the 'down draft' takes longer than 45 seconds, grind just a tad larger.  If it takes less than 30 seconds, you may experience too weak of a cup and might want to grind just a bit finer.  Stick with it; you'll get it.

5)  If you are not consuming the entire pot at one time, preheat water in a thermos and pour the remainder of the pot into the thermos until you are ready.

6)  Store the upper globe out of the way.  I have an imported woven basket on the coffee shelf, with the globes laying on their sides, along with the glass rod collection I have started (Corys, Cornings, Silex-Lox In, Polan Fire Glass, and more.  Heavens, getting compulsive about these glass rods).

7)  Clean-up:

    *  Let the grinds air-dry a bit.  They come out more easily after a bit.  I use the same rice spatula to work out the grinds from the pot that I used to immerse the coffee for extraction.  You can find one in an Asia grocery store in your area or grab one like this: http://xrl.us/RicePaddle (Link to www.simply-natural.biz) . 

    *  Next step on the 5-cup (with a thin throat) is to put the dish cloth entirely into the globe, immerse it into the dish water, and shake the globe (very securely in your hands), using the force and impact of the cloth to get the remaining oils.  Rinse with very hot water a minimum of three times to ensure all soap traces are removed.

   *  Others have recommended the curved brush to clean the 5-cup, though I have no experience with it.  I will have Sweetmaria's toss it in the next time I order some greens to roast.  Here it is:  (at the bottom of the page) http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.coffeecleaner.shtml.

Buying Experience

Easy, simple, straightforward.  Vacpot was shipped quickly and well packed.  BoldJava is such a dear <grins>.


B|Java
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 10:14:58 AM by BoldJava »